If I wanted to iD as a man - questions from working through the steps on Self-iD....

[Caldonia]

Thinking things through on the Self-Id issue. I'm finding the double-think hard work I'll be honest. So I've started by trying to pin down the practical steps, using 'What if I wanted to Self-iD as a man?'.

How's it going to work with the Self-iD form? Will I just download it, sign it and then I am a man in society, not just in my head. Or do I have to get it counter-signed? At the Commissioner of Oaths? At my solicitors? May be the Mumsnetter lawyer types could fill me on this?

Will I get a card to flash at the staff on the door at the local Lido in the summertime, that says "This is a man" so I can change in the men's changing rooms? Or do I just walk on in and have a face to face argument if challenged by someone?

Bodywise I'm peri-menopausal woman and as there is no need to change anything physically for Self-iD I think that there a number of questions. Will GP going to let me have HRT if I need it if I tell them at the doctors that I am a man? Or do I have to carry on presenting as a woman at the doctors for the NHS to issue appointments for cervical cancer screening, mammograms, and gynaecology consults? Therefore society will be recognising me as both, simultaneously.

Thinking ahead, and will I get a better annuity rate at retirement? As statistically men don't live as long as women, they generally get a better annuity income than women.

Can anyone cast any light on these situations?

Bump. Any answers? Want some ideas for debate as I hope to discuss this with my MP (who is male and Tory. And his party proposed this).

Bumping as there is a errrr 'person' who is in the process to taking on the local swimming pool asking to be allowed to enter mens changing facilities etc as -s-he identifies as a man.

Its funny and frustrating at the same time.

If it's just a form, I'm going for it. Sick of being called bossy.
Apparently assertiveness is okay in a man.

Do as you please. The cleaning needed doing this morning so I did it, identifying as a woman. Then I realised that the doorbell needed fitting so I identified as a man while I did that and then I needed to sew a cushion cover so I retransitioned to woman. Currently drinking diet coke so am a woman but may have to sort out a computer game for the dc in a minute so back to being a chap. Honestly, it's exhausting.

You'll still need women's health care like HRT, smears, etc, even though you'd be a man. Because you'll still have a woman's body. Having a GRC mustn't stop you from getting the healthcare you need. You don't need to "present" as a woman to the GP. Just explain that you are a man, in a woman's body.

Thank you all. I knew I shouldn't have written the post so po-faced! I want to sort out the practicalities via a debate as I will be talking to MP about what a nonsense the sef-id is. Looking forward to the #manfriday reports tomorrow.

Mrs Wooster - I possess a toolbox, wear trousers and am very assertive. I think I'd do well as a man. I'd be paid more, do less housework and have a much healthier pension!

No GRC needed for self-id. - is that correct? And if a woman legallfy self-identifies as a man, will NHS have to have another tick box, in order to say Has a woman's body? Otherwise going to miss screenings for cervical cancer et al.

On the swimming pool front all I did on #manfriday was say to the woman on the desk that I identify as a man when she said it was a men only swimming session and she said “oh, ok”.

As for all the legal stuff I suspect they haven’t thought that far yet.

I also suspect that they haven't thought out the practicalities given how quiet that they (politicians) have been on this matter. I don't want this piss-poor piece of legislation getting traction. If MP's party haven't done the thinking (clearly they haven't) then I want some arguments ready to draw on. Conceptually it's nonsense, and I'm furious that women would be the biggest losers in real terms.

SwearyG - kudos to you for the mens swimming session! Found the #manfriday today on Twitter.

The reason why self ID hasn't been thought through is because its been written from the POV of the male gaze.

Men who want access think women's toilets are all about mirrors and lipstick and girly gossip. They don't know or care what a miscarriage looks like.

That's a good encapsulation of the situation as far as i've got with it. Where does that leave TIW? Buying into the same view? What is their starting point?

I think in Ireland where they have self-ID, you would still apply for a GRC but anyone can self-ID and apply. And I guess after you have that, you could change your passport to your chosen gender and use that as ID if anyone challenged you.

Posted too soon. I agree about the physicality of female - afterbirth is horrifying!!!

I have been pondering about infertility/subfertility, which I have been through. I wanted to a mother and my body didn't get that message (do as it was told!). Whatever I and DH may have wanted - children - was not necessarily going to happen, whatever I wanted in my head. The medical procedures had gatekeepers, in that GP had to approve us to have treatment and there were limits set by law. It's not entirely analogous, but has set me playing around with ideas, parallels, anomalies within the trans arguments for self I'd.

I wonder if I can do this and get something to show at interviews to stop being judged as a woman of childbearing age

Worth a go Indominus. If it is easy as saying "I'm a man" and may be having the form (from off t'internet) to waft in front of HR.

Crikey you have to go to a lot of bother over a will or registering a marriage. I'm no fan of unnecessary bureaucracy, but we are addressing fundamental stuff here and I'm sensing an absence. Generally an absence of reason it has to be said.

I've thought about this as I could self-ID in my other country, but the only benefit I can see for a woman IDing as a man is for toilets at the theatre. I would also worry about not being eligible for my women's groups (and all the women's awards I was planning to win, obviously..).

Maybe ask someone irish? They've been doing this for a couple of years

Celine, do you mean non-trans women IDing as men or just self-ID in general?

Self - ID in general. Would also say that I'm doubtful on the better anuity rate - insurance companies being bastards after all

Caledonia

As someone who has suffered from infertility I also draw parallels around your body not being or doing what you want it to do.

I was lucky IVF worked for me but there were medical gatekeepers around that process and I had no problem with that.

Likewise, if we had gone on to try to adopt, the gate keeping around that is enormous, multi-faceted and from what I gather very invasive and long! All of which is right because there are competing rights and the rights of the children are paramount.

So, like you say it's not completely analogous but I think there are parallels.

You literally just ask.

Right now I think we can all get a female or male driving licence by just asking for a letter from your GP.

A GRC is more complicated and involves gatekeeping which is being removed soon it will be just an Internet download. This is in effect a change of birth certificate.

BUT in practice, in our delf decleration climate, in any given sex segregated spaces noone checks your ID and even if it doesn't match your claim no one says anything because they don't want to be bigoted.
So you just ask. "Hi I am a man I shall use the men's rooms, 'kay?"

@swearyG OMG, I am so impressed. You are one brave man. Or woman. Or person.

Brighton and Hove Council have just made up some badges for you to wear so we can all know what pronouns you'd like to use.