Getting the message out about self-id

[MsMcWoodle]

I'm concerned about how little is known about the proposed changes by the general public.
I've talked to friends about this - none of whom knew anything about it, and I've written to a local mosque to ask if women (and men) in their community could support the petition.
Does anyone have any ideas about to get the word out. It just seems that the changes are being sneaked in.

Changes are being sneaked in.
Scotland are introducing it without any prior consultation with women. It's all come directly from Stonewall and pro trans activist groups.

They put out a "consultation" to the general public having made up their minds already.

Rant aside, keep talking!
Resistance to this has to come from grassroots up. Those in power have swallowed the Trans ideology line in a desperate desire to be seen "right-on" without needing to think at all.

Join gender critical groups on Facebook for ideas. Talk to other mosques (are you religious?) Ask them to have a discussion meet about it.
Talk to schools, if you have a child send their headteacher the Transgender Trend school advisory document.

The petition is important but is only a small part of a long battle because after self-ID is implemented we then will need to worry about the Equality Act changes.

Thanks Padodp
Nervous about what I put on facebook and who I talk to.
No, I'm not religious but I don't think that the change will be popular with many religious groups.

I think it's because it's all very hard to believe. I used to think you were all bonkers. But then I read more about the issues and the things you are saying are true, sadly.

I was thinking about this earlier. There always seems to be one group in society that is pandered to, for want of a better word. A group that nobody is allowed to criticise and the left fall over themselves to promote and accommodate, often at the expense of other groups. It's almost like a fashion. Before trans people, it was Muslims, before that it was gay people, before that it was black people, etc etc. Trans people are just the latest "in" group. Let's just hope that minimal damage is done before Trans people are forgotten about and another group is promoted as the "in" group. I am not saying that these groups are not deserving at all, I am just saying it is like a fashion.

Yes - theMythical
Will be interesting to see how they manage the competing demands.

No one in my office had heard about it - nor the vocal groups pusning this, that and the other agendas in schools.

Quite odd - a lot of intelligent, educated people.

Fekko - that's what worries me. Even people who are very politically engaged.
I think we need to be creative about getting the message out.

Fekko, it's because the Agenda has changed. I know a lot of drag queens, men who dress up as women, and do drag shows, but are not women and don't want to be women. They behave like men off stage and use men's facilities, etc.

I also know a few (probably about 10) post-surgery transexuals. They all lived as women for years and then had their penises chopped off and made into vaginas and had hormone treatment and some had their Adam's apples removed.

I don't think either of these groups are a threat, personally. And I think that others think the same. It's just that there is now a new group, people calling themselves women when they are not and perhaps abusing any new trans legislation for foul means. Most people probably hadn't even thought about this as a possibility, which is why they are supportive of the legislation. Or at least not anti it.

TheMythicalChicken

Completely. Those people you described, the drag acts and old skool transsexuals, they are not a threat at all.
These are the people that we all used to have in mind when hearing about the issue.

In fact many feminists would welcome the OSTs into women's spaces as they have (in Corbyn's words) "gone on a journey and have suffered"... but this group make up a tiny minority of transwomen. Even this group are labelled "Truscum" etc as we all know are not well respected even in their own community.

It's this new influx of male-presenting "women", egotists and fetishists that are dominating the agenda, this group are so hard to believe you only understand about it once you've witnessed it, on Twitter, YouTube or wherever... how harmful it is.

OP I'd suggest familiarising yourself with prominent pro-trans voices like Riley J Dennis and Shon Faye so you can find resources to raise awareness of this harmful ideology that's come from left-field, hiding behind the OSTs hijacking and appropriating their genuine struggle.

Changes are being sneaked in, definitely. That's why the TRAs are so furious at women meeting to discuss self-ID. And that's why we need to keep talking about it.

JJ's fundraiser about all-women shortlists in the Labour Party being available to any man who self-identifies as a woman was only started 2 months ago. Before that, hardly anyone had talked about self-ID, even on here.

Now self-ID is starting to be talked about in wider society.

The Labour Party are due to issue a statement on Tuesday this week about self-ID (being all for it apparently). This will get press coverage and add to the debate. The press on the right will use that as an opportunity to bash Corbyn (Bonkers Stalinist Bashes Women). And that's fine by me.

Anything that shines a light is great.

I agree with all the PP's. The level of ignorance about what these proposals really mean is striking. Lily and crew may declare that the public is with them "on the right side of history"(!), but I seriously doubt they believe it. They know they have to present a more acceptable face to the public, so we are not going to see any bearded truckers who like to be called Mandy on Fridays being interviewed on This Morning!

I learned about Self-Id from Mumsnet, and in RL, I am a pretty well-informed, unconventional person. I read a lot, and have some very "interesting" friends. It says a lot if someone like me was barely aware of these proposals!

We have to speak out whenever we can.

Donning hard hat; -

I would like to see a bit less of the "I'm afraid to go on Facebook/Twitter/talk about this" - "Oh, I know, me, too" conversations on here. It's creating a siege mentality, and spreading fears which are groundless for many people. TRA supporters are not the Stasi. Yes, of course I know that there are some who can't speak out - certain jobs make it impossible. But that doesn't apply to everyone, and by constantly reiterating it we are helping the TRA's shut down debate. Some of my friends and colleagues have been rather ?? when I have posted Gender Critical stuff, but I am careful not to be offensive, and answer their queries with proper information.
If people who have known me for years are able to suddenly dismiss me as a bigot, disregard everything they know about me and get on board with the TRA's, I don't want their friendship (and so far this hasn't happened)

I thought the article by Kristina recently was really useful - not least as she's a transwoman.

I've consisted tentatively sharing this.

I darent on fb but want to find some way of doing so.

This made me laugh, though! Answer to Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru Leader.

I've just posted this on the petition thread, but I think it's relevant here as well, so I hope it's OK to repost here. I can't imagine anyone is keeping up with all the trans threads at the moment. Someone on another thread said they'd had most success with getting the message across with what was going on in the girl guides. But the same thing is going on in schools.

If transwomen are women then transgirls are girls and can share girls changing rooms at school, and their dormitories on school trips. I think this is the way to get people on board with this - look at what is happening to children.
This is the guidance for Scottish schools on Transgender students.

www.lgbtyouth.org.uk/files/documents/Supporting_Transgender_Young_People.pdf

Quote from p.21

Good practice
If a transgender young person wants to share a room with other young people who share their gender identity, they should be able to do so
If a transgender young person is sharing a room with their peers, there is no reason for parents or carers of the other young people to be informed

Anyone who has children in school, particularly girls, should be concerned about this. Girls can be forced to share changing rooms and sleeping accommodation with boys, parents will not be told, and the girl will be labelled 'transphobic' if she objects.

Most parents will not be aware of this guidance, so completely unaware of what is happening in schools. The link is for a document relating to Scotland, but I have seen others for the rest of the UK including one from the cps.
www.transgendertrend.com/cps-schools-project-the-erasure-of-sex-and-the-silencing-of-girls/

We need a simple fact sheet to share:

What the current law is, how it was intended and how it is used
What the intended changes are

How this works in practice.

I am concerned that people from the government keep pointing to the exemptions of the Equality Act, yet these are not working in practice as we can see from the changes with Girl Guides, Law Society etc.

Any one trying to use an exemption seems to have to prove that it is proportionate to their aims so they will err on the side of caution, rather than fight it through the courts. They would probably change their rules and hope that it does not come up.
Therefore the exemptions do not work in practice.

Self-id would obliterate them.

I’m telling every person I trust about this issue and they first of all look at me like I have taken leave of my senses (because they have been fed “the wrong side of history” stuff and think I’m being some kind of homophobe) but once they are willing to listen they are outraged.

I’m working on making some stickers for loo doors, changing rooms etc. that explain the issue in 25-30 succinct words. It’s taking some doing but I’m getting there.

Melamin

This one is good;
sages.org.uk/publications/sages-factsheet.html

There is also a link to a "Sex Matters" booklet somewhere on this site too - will have a look.

This is all great. The fact sheet is brilliant and seems to cover everything. The only thing is that I think you'd need something shorter to give to people who weren't already engaged.
Love the idea of stickers on loo doors too. Would like to share your wording CircleSquare?
I have now created a twitter account. Think I could get lost in there for ever though.

#ManFriday is good for minor activism. You can find the hashtag on twitter and there’s a group who have organised leaflets with an elevator pitch on them. On Fridays we’re self identified men and we go into men’s spaces (loos, changing rooms, swimming sessions etc) and make men notice the impact of self ID.

I did the swim on Friday and littered the changing room with leaflets afterwards to let the men know they could object to me self-identifying and being in their space. It should be in the papers on Sunday too.

circlesquare Yup... this is what we need to do... Using Man Fridays leaflets widely at the mo but we need more! Congrats and looking forward to using stickers too...

Just got doorstepped by a woman from the Green Party. Told her what I thought and gave her the Sages leaflet - she didn't seem to know much about it and asked if I would come and talk to the local group!