Britain first & free speech?

[SpringHen]

Britain first & its leaders banned from facebook

I think there should be a stike system and zero tolerance for certain posts but think facebook should put in the work and deal with it on an individual basis.

Where does this policy of banning a whole group and its leaders leave other controversal groups like TERFs.

I dont in any way condone Britain First but I dont condone the extreme far left either and if FB continues down this road, social media risks becoming a far left echo chamber with noone to counter challenge.

Thoughts?

Agree that BF frequenlty incite and have been convicted of various hate / violent type crimes.

I'd say analogy was better with the TRAs that "terfs"- given that they have attacked women in real life more than once - and frequently say kill all terfs / kill all cis (!) / die in a fire and have directly threatened prominent feminists and their children at least once.

The fact that it is terfs who are generally accepted as violent due to words is a classic reversal of the type (ironically) practiced by men since forever.

All fair points.

I do agree that facebook can do what it wants but at the same time social media has in many ways surpassed the mainstream media and facebook is more than just an app isnt it?

I thought they were a proscribed organisation? As such, it is illegal to be a member

Ah well that puts a different slant on it. I must admit I blocked the buggers the first time someone liked a post of theirs and it came up on my feed.

What we do and don’t allow as speech is quite clearly set out in law is it not? Incitement to violence of hatred is not Ok, expressing an opinion, no matter how unpleasant is allowed.

What are the actual rules for online presence of groups?

Best news I've had all day.

What are the actual rules for online presence of groups?
Facebook statement said "We are an open platform for all ideas and political speech goes to the heart of free expression, but political views can and should be expressed without hate. People can express robust and controversial opinions without needing to denigrate others on the basis of who they are.”
Sounds like FB will be the arbiter themselves of what constitutes hate speech and the rather difficult to pin down "denigrating others".
Maybe it will be whichever 'denigrated' group kicks up the most fuss?

Snibble I agree that in FACT violence has been incited by TRAs towards TERFs

However theyre doing a damb fine job of convincing many that it is the other way round

& thats the crux of it

Some facts:

Who's been banned from Facebook? The organisation Britain First. Both of it's two criminal leaders. Not anyone else. So no question of "guilt by association", or anyone else being banned.
Why? Facebook says it was for repeatedly posting content that broke their community standards, and which was designed to incite hatred.

Britain First has not been proscribed, and it is not illegal to be a member.
It has been deregistered as a political party, not as any sort of judgement, but because it failed to do to things every political party has to do from time to time. Confirm that the details held are correct, and pay a £25 fee. You know, the kind of minor admin stuff you have to be grown up enough to stay on top of if you want to be registered as a company, a charity, or a political party in this country.

There were calls for BF to be proscribed following Jo Cox's murder, but , probably correctly, these were not acted on.

Free speech is the lifeblood of a democracy.

About trans issues and the attempted silencing of women's voices, well, I would take heart from this. If you find people inciting hatred and violence, eg towards so- called Terfs, on Facebook, now you have a clear precedent to request Facebook to remove posts which break their community guidelines. I am absolutely not in favour of seeking to silence anyone, but asking people not to advocate violence towards another group- that feels ok to me.

Having checked Google - I believe I was wrong and Britain First are NOT proscribed. Apologies.

I've seen loads of posts on FB inciting violence towards women and FB does not remove, ditto racists posts.

They often put a "over 18" label on it instead.

FB is sexist and racist basically, there was an article as well recently which said their algorithms that they use to assess content etc are sexist racist as they are replicating the unconscious bias of their creators.

But DancingLedge WE are the ones being accused of incitment of violence. Its gasslighting but its working for them

Im not the one putting us in the same bracket as hate groups, weve already been put there.

As such if we want to be engaged with we may have to consider applying that to everyone??

Agree Snibble
Given what's happened to PosieParker and all the posters on here worried about expressing gender critical ideas anywhere it seems, I have zero confidence in Twitter/YouTube/FB to moderate properly. It'll be those with the loudest voices who get to decide which views are ok.

I honestly think at my work it would go down better if I said "I think Britain First have a point" than if I was openly gender critical. theyre falling arse over tit to be seen as diverse and inclusive right now & logic & facts dont matter...

Theyre consulting with every fucker except the women theyre making budge over..

Right wing views might get a raised eyebrow but gender criticism is against their corporate philosophy or some shit

Loads of TIMs in tech

Just saying

Women, not so much

Suspect is a massive race bias as well

People can express robust and controversial opinions without needing to denigrate others on the basis of who they are.

So me saying ‘I have concerns that self ID could lead to removal of the sex based exceptions in the current equality act and this would be very damaging to women’ Should be totally fine.

And if it’s not then I think we need to have a robust discussion on whether it’s the squeaky wheels getting the grease.

Agree absolutely that FB is sexist - witness the removal of BF posts or cancer post-mastectomy posts while posts advocating violence against women are allowed to stand.

FB is tech bro central :(

And we shouldn't forget that deadnaming and misgendering is, of course
literal violence.

We are forcing people to threaten to commit silence. We are literally if you change the meaning of the word literal killing ickle trans kids with our literal violence still not what literal violence means

And people are buying how dangerous our views are!

silence = shoulda said suicide

When did the meaning of literal change to mean ‘actually not literal in any sense.’?

Literal has a defined meaning ffs.

If you walk up to me in the street (say at speakers corner) and punch me that is literally violent.

If you call me he, or it, that’s mildly vexatious. It’s not even inferred violent threat ffs.

I know what you mean op. TRAs are presenting us as a hate group (e.g. trying to get the HoC meeting cancelled) and I can see it working, particularly with the labour party.
And if they succeed, it won't make the slightest bit of difference to my views, in fact it will only entrench them further. So what purpose does it serve?

It's really making me reconsider a lot of my thinking - but that's no bad thing.

Yeah I've had the same concerns recently too. The Lauren Southern thing is also troubling.

Freedom of speech doesn't mean you can incite racial hatred and distribute racist material with impunity. Why would you want to defend Lauren Southern for doing that?

Not because of Britain First, but because of how the media reported that Tommy Robinson beaten up outside Mcdonalds and how no-one has condemned that.

Yes exactly. That was a crime and the perpetrator needs bringing to justice. The sense of vigilantism is quite frightening on two levels - firstly because it implies people feel comfortable taking the law into their own hands (why? Because hey perceive him as deserving it?) and secondly because it implies people are not having confidence in the state to do whatcthevstate should, which is investigate and dispense justice

It says in the news

The social media platform said it had deleted the group's Facebook page, as well as that of its two leaders, Paul Golding and Jayda Fransen

Both leaders are in prison. The page and the leaders' pages incite hatred. I'm not sure what the problem is?
This isn't innocent naive people like my friend sharing all the Christmas is banned rubbish, this is deliberate, calculated falsehoods posted to incite violence.

About t8me too.