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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Muscato's IWD pronouncement.

50 replies

ShotsFired · 12/03/2018 07:08

I can't see this posted elsewhere, apologies if it has been.

Starts off badly, gets worse, descends into the poor TW narrative, takes a side avenue into begging for money (of course) and then ends up with it being All About Them As It Always Is.

With a bonus feature of true macho aggression in the comments.

www.facebook.com/notes/danielle-muscato/international-womens-day-and-the-systemic-exploitation-of-women/10156026116475479/

OP posts:
anna231a · 12/03/2018 10:04

It reads like a badly written 6th form essay. Do you think anyone will actually send him money?

Teacuphiccup · 12/03/2018 10:12

Though there was a lot of eye rolling I did agree with them about this

‘Transmisogyny is, in my view, a slightly different problem than misogyny, rather than a subcategory of it. I believe that transmisogyny has as much or more to do with homophobia, as it does with hatred of women, although both are inextricably enmeshed with patriarchal power structures that breed sexism by their very nature.’

Sounds pretty TERFy to me.

HairyLittlePoet · 12/03/2018 10:20

PSA for Muscato et al

If you have no gyn you don't suffer misogyny

It literally has female genitals in the word.

swivelchair · 12/03/2018 10:22

And I don’t mean, pick up after yourself around the house. I mean, PAY US .. goes on to beg for money on his Patreon

The fucker. I'm an actual, real woman, actually performing all this emotional labour, this real labour, this childcare etc. and yes, I FUCKING DO MEAN PICK UP AFTER YOURSELF AROUND THE HOUSE.

Personally, I'd much prefer you took your own cup to the kitchen than paid me for the minutes it takes me to do it for you, because showing me that you take responsibility for yourself will go a darn site further than the 20p it bag me.

swivelchair · 12/03/2018 10:24

I skipped most of it, but really. How much more can you miss the point. How much more insulting can it be to say all that stuff, then dismiss it as worth nothing, and you should donate cash instead of doing the labour yourself.

God. I'm fuming.

I'm going to have to go and get a cup of tea to calm down - that idiot doesn't deserve to have me be so annoyed at his ridiculous rambling (also doesn't help that he used the word ineffably poory - and I rather like the word ineffable, and want it to be used correctly)

boatyardblues · 12/03/2018 12:23

Is this the actual pinnacle of mansplaining?

Maybe for today. I suspect it’s like peak trans: just when you’ve reached such dizzying heights that you think it can’t possibly gets any worse, another peak will appear.

Todayissunny · 12/03/2018 12:39

It is aimed at men so nor mansplaining. Transplaining.

Badly written
I agree with a bit of the stuff about emotional labour.
I zoned out after that though....

CuriousaboutSamphire · 12/03/2018 12:48

I agree with a bit of the stuff about emotional labour. Yes. Pity he could reference the works he took those ideas from. I can identify 3, all about a decade old.

LabourLostMe · 12/03/2018 13:16

Vile man.

Claiming trans is a wonderful way for insignificant men to get attention which they wouldn't otherwise receive.

Teacuphiccup · 12/03/2018 13:36

I’m going to say something that’s going to be really unpopular.

I kind of feel sorry for them.

It must be awful to be trans and be stuck between a rock and a hard place, if you try hard to ‘pass’ you’re accused of playing up to female stereotypes and if you don’t then you’re dismissed as a troll and a mra. (Don’t get me wrong I understand the other reasons why these are thrown around at Danielle).

I personally believe the less people taking hormones etc the better.

It kind of follows a strange logic that I can follow. If you believe that gender is innate then surely it makes sense that you could be a woman in a mans body who presents as butch.

This is the problem, they are tying themselves in knots. This is the logical next step for people who believe you can be in the wrong body. Why would a trans woman always be feminine presenting? Natal women aren’t.

If you believe that being a woman is a special feeling inside then this is what happens.

Teacuphiccup · 12/03/2018 13:37

Btw I absolutely do not believe that gender is innate.

BeyondDeadlySiren · 12/03/2018 13:45

I know what you mean teacup. I get torn between whether DM should be used as an example of "this person clearly isn't a woman" based on appearances - especially when an old picture is used as DM is making more of a femininity effort now - or whether it is contradictory to (general) feminism to say "this person doesn't pass enough"

But then while I'm sat here overthinking, DM tweets something along the lines of "suck my dick" and my sympathy evaporates.

Teacuphiccup · 12/03/2018 14:12

Danielle is probably the wrong person for the point to be honest.

But I do think you either buy into it fully or you don’t buy into it at all.

I personally don’t care if a trans person passes, I don’t care if they have a willy or not, I think gender non conformity is wonderful, because I think men should be able to be what they like and so should women. However I don’t believe that there is anything to being a woman than your biology so you’re still Male, a non gender conforming Male, good for you.

I don’t think we do ourselves any favours though pointing out when trans women don’t fit into the physical stereotypes of women.
When we point out when they retain Male pattern violence and privilege then obviously that’s different, but complaining about them not being physically feminine enough is a bit of an own goal.

Datun · 12/03/2018 14:29

I understand about why should someone perform femininity when that's not what females necessarily do. It doesn't make you female.

But it's taken straight out of the feminist narrative. And muscato knows that.

He's using the feminist narrative to prop up transgenderism. Thereby using feminism against feminists.

It's deliberate sleight of hand.

Of course it doesn't matter what Muscato looks like. They are still a man.

But there are many people who will perceive a feminine presenting man differently to a masculine presenting one.

There is a perception that if someone is committed, they are more 'authentic'.

Probably with some logic behind that. But only if you discount autogynephilia.

A man with gender dysphoria, will presumably want to present as little like a man as they can. As presenting as a man would cause some distress.

Whereas a man with AGP can easily present like a man with little distress.

And people are jolted into the realisation that transgenderism mightn't be quite the distressing mental condition it claims, when a man presents like any other man.

So it's a useful example to point out.

There was a thread on here around the time of the MeToo campaign.

Which led me, and other posters, to believe that Muscato is something of a manipulative fantasist. (Since deleted, at the posters' request).

As an example of the bonkers ideology, they are an effective demonstration. But do not ever be sucked into anything they say.

Teacuphiccup · 12/03/2018 14:40

I think it is a useful example to point out because it’s an extreme example of how irrational the entire trans ideology is. I think if you accept any man can be a woman who have to accept that Danielle is a woman.
I think they undermine the transgender argument rather than prop it up.

I remember the metoo thread I was on it under a different username but I agree there’s some serious gaslighting happening on the side of Muscato.

I guess my point is more when people say ‘he can’t be a woman because he’s not trying’ they should be saying ‘he can’t be a woman because he’s male’.

I don’t think passing makes you more female nor does it mean your gender dysphoria is worse.

Teacuphiccup · 12/03/2018 14:46

I think instead of pointing out that he doesn’t pass we should be asking why is he less of a woman than any other trans woman?

Because the answer will be something like ‘because he doesn’t look like what I think a woman should look like’ and it exposes the whole thing for the misogynistic crap it is.

Datun · 12/03/2018 14:50

Teacuphiccup

I completely agree. It sometimes takes a little leap though for people to connect the dots.

When we say 'any man' many people are still thinking of a feminine presenting gay man.

Similar thing happens when you show the before photos of transwomen. When they were 'men'.

People suddenly see quite clearly, that there are only 2 sex categories.

When they had been lulled into believing that certain lines might be a little 'blurred'. Purely through perception.

Because, of course, if someone is going out of their way to look like the opposite sex, there is a slight perception problem.

swivelchair · 12/03/2018 15:10

A man with gender dysphoria, will presumably want to present as little like a man as they can. As presenting as a man would cause some distress.

Whereas a man with AGP can easily present like a man with little distress.

Ooooh - that made my head go PING

Yes, there's a difference between a person doing this to alleviate distress - ie. because to not do it puts them below their baseline, and doing it brings them up to it vs. a person doing it because it feels good to do it - ie. they live at baseline, and they do it for a high..

And the second co-opting the sympathy due the first is where so many of the problems stem from.

Teacuphiccup · 12/03/2018 16:05

I don’t think that people who buy into the trans ideology necessarily think that trans women have to have gender dysphoria, I think many people see it as an orientation like being gay, an innate gender identity. That they are literally women trapped in men’s bodies so they don’t have to ‘dress as women’ because their soul is female.
In fact I think the gender dysphoria idea is increasingly becoming seen as transphobic as you are implying they aren’t women just men who want to be women.

It’s madness.

Datun · 12/03/2018 16:08

Exactly. Hence Philippa 'Pip' Bunce being able to identify as a woman one day and a man the next, with perfect equanimity.

And when he is a woman, uses all the women's facilities.

No gender dysphoria, just an old-fashioned cross dresser. But now with the Teflon coating of trans.

And all the brave and stunning nonsense.

One big con.

Teacuphiccup · 12/03/2018 16:21

But I don’t think that many AGP trans people have the self awareness to recognise it as a fetish, I think they genuinely believe they are a woman because they’ve never actually stopped to think what a woman is and they have a warped pornified view of women. I think some of them genuinely believe that’s how they women behave.
I also think that some mistake ‘being uncomfortable because they aren’t getting their own way’ with gender dysphoria.

Datun · 12/03/2018 16:27

Teacuphiccup

Yes, I don't think they can see women as actual humans at all. They see them as an object to be fetishised.

Perhaps they can separate that version of womanhood out, in their head, when they are talking to, I don't know, family members, colleagues, etc.

Two types of women maybe?

Men are very fond of othering some women in order to justify their misogyny. Like madonna/whore for example.

BreakfastAtSquiffanys · 12/03/2018 16:31

Thanks for that link.

Next time insomnia strikes, I'll try to read it.
I'll be alseep in no time

Teacuphiccup · 12/03/2018 16:35

Datun I totally agree, like when men say ‘I became interested in feminism when I had a daughter’ Hmm

I don’t think we should play the ‘they pass’ ‘lets do it not to hurt their feelings of the people who have dysphoria’ game.

I think that actually ends up being far more problematic than having a thick firm line in the sand called biological sex.

dogendsaredogs · 12/03/2018 17:49

This tra and his bat girlgang terrorised evergreen College in US pomo war. I am posting a long video but the astounding entitlement bit is at 22.53 to 25.23 where he says his ideal reparations (for slavery) would be if people looked at his selfies. He is an unvalidated identity. bless.

Muscato's IWD pronouncement.
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