Tomboys

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I am not a seasoned Mumsnetter but thought I bring up the courage to post my first thread.

I hate the term tomboy. Why are girls who are athletic, not interested in Disney princessy stuff, who like to play with girls and boys gasp and who'd rather explore and be adventurous than playing mummies and daddies 'honorary' boys?

Why are they not just girls who like all these thing? I think it's such a sexist term and defines gender roles so narrowly.

In my experience even the most educated, and apparently aware and open minded of women use the term tomboy without any notion of how limiting and sexist it is.

What do others think?

No such thing anymore. They are all trans instead.

Well, I suppose at the moment I'm relieved to see a young girl described as a tomboy rather than as trans or non-binary.

But yes, OP. I see your point.

Yeah, children behaving like children... why do they even need a label?

I usually just respond with:

"She isn't any sort of boy; she is a girl. There are many ways of being a girl and she is one of them"

I haven't hand anyone say anything other than, "no, you're right" yet.

But I agree, being recognised as a girl who likes 'boy' things is a damn sight better than telling girls who do that they are a 'boy trapped in a girls body'!

When my daughter was born last decade gender roles were not as narrowly defined as they are now. I genuinely felt she could be absolutely anybody and anything she'd like to be but during the last 10 years or so gender norms have become augmented and solidified.

I see what people mean with the term tomboy being preferable to trans but I am so sick of it and I cannot understand how allegedly intelligent and educated women who even call themselves feminists label girls as tomboys. Insane.

Not sure really thought about it. Was a term that was used in 70s. About time it got phased out now you mention it.

That's a good reply PJsAndABlanketOnTheSofa I will try that next time. Blackeyed through my professional background I am quite aware of the power of the language and the metaphors we use and as you say most people use the term tomboy unquestioningly because it has become part of everyday vocabulary, thank you for reminding me of this.

The book Metaphors We Live by George Lakoff shaped my opinion on language and metaphors deeply, which is why I may be especially cross about the term tomboy as it reinforces existing cultural stereotypes of what girls and boys, men and women should be like or are naturally like. It reinforces patriarchal ideology.

I forget that more often than not we just use language without thinking, which is why wanted to post this thread.

I hated being called a tomboy as a kid but at least everyone knew I was still a girl. Nowadays people still use it as shorthand as girl who doesn't conform to stereotype, but the worst thing is the push to trans gnc girls rather than accepting them at all.

I was called a tomboy in the 70s and never felt comfortable with it. I knew I was a girl, and I knew that I was different from the accepted norm. But I was still a girl. My dress-loving, J17-loving, make-up-wearing friends weren't labelled- they were just girls. So why did I have this strange label?

It was used a lot in my family, growing up in the 70s. Never about me because I was quite gender conforming, but I had 3 brothers and being a 'tomboy' was held up as being the gold standard for me, as a girl, to aspire to. The things I liked - imaginative play, art and craft and reading, were looked down upon. 'Being a tomboy' was offered to me as an acceptable way of being a girl, because boys were implicitly acknowledged as being better.

I hated it, and still do. I have 3 daughters and have always tried to avoid any kind of value judgement on what they wanted to wear and play with (which was bloody hard during the Barbie phase, I will admit.)

When I was 8 I had the strongest feeling that I wanted to be a boy. Not just a feeling really but a certainty that I was a boy.
I only played with boys in the playground and at their houses and one of my happiest moments - and I clearly remember it- was when one of them told me that I was the most ‘boyish’ of all his friends.
I pulled at my genitals in the desperate hope that I would grow a penis (and still have a slight deformity as a result)
My long suffering mum patiently cleaned up after me for months as I insisted on peeing standing up - with predictable results.
Both my parents were liberal and relaxed and I was assured that I was a tomboy and that I would grow out of it.
The term tomboy gave me some comfort and a ‘place’ in my head.
This phase lasted about two years and by the time I went to senior school I had no doubt that I was female and I have been happily married for years with children and grandchildren.

Equally annoying is the idea that you are probably going to be lesbian. I've seen it posted quite often on MN.

Tomboy is one of those micro aggressions against girls that are passed down from generation to generation. No harm intended, I'm sure. It can be overwhelming for adults to constantly refer to you as a failure at being a girl. It was for me.

I agree o/p. I hate it. It reinforces the idea that there are “proper” girls, and girls who behave like boys.

My 11 year old has always been taken for a boy, since she was a baby. She is in secondary now, and the only girl in her year of 200 that wears trousers- you can choose skirt or trousers. She is also very into sport and has short hair.

She is not a tomboy, or gender confused, or a lesbian. If people assume boy, she has perfected an “are you insane/blind/stupid” and says really slowly, i’m a girl.

It leads to the gender preference crap you read here a lot- oh i’m such a girly girl i couldn’t cope with a boy, or i’m a tomboy so much prefer boys.

People who use girly girl should also be shot. Or made to join the army.

People. People who happen to have different sex organs. It also pisses me off when people attribute qualities to said sex organs- he’s quiet, it’s a boy thing. I’m going to say blondes like my little pony and brunettes don’t, because that’s what my children are like. And it’s definitely linked to hair colour, because i raised them both the same....

The French version is worse: garçon manqué.

Yanbu

I hate all the stupid narrow minded gender crap that people define children by. Tom boy, girly girl, Princess, rough and tumble boy. Left to their own choices most kids play across the whole range and they should be free to do so.

My kids love colour and fun. That's what kids are supposed to like. I was asked is he a girl or a boy or haven't you decided yet? because my dinosaur obsessed 3yo happened to have every finger and toe nail painted a different colour. I'm still angry months later. He's totally clear what he is, I'm not a baby, I'm a big boy. He doesn't need anyone's assigned gender rubbish messing with his fun.

I hate it. It reinforces the idea that there are “proper” girls, and girls who behave like boys

Hmm, not sure about that. There was a long thread on here recently where posters were queuing up to say what tomboys they were as children. I think it is used on here to distinguish between "girly girls" and the superior sort of girl who doesn't like girly things.