So, TRA = people being exploited by MRA, perhaps?

[LightofaSilveryMoon]

Just wondering that a lot of the trans rights thing (as applied to born men who claim they are real women) is so pervasive because it is actually a Men's Rights aggression campaign using transsexual people as human shields and proxies.

It's all just a continuation of misogyny really,

There seems to be the men who want to take their fetish out in public as well as the men who suffer actual dysmorphia, and then there are the MRAs who view this as an opportunity to roll back women's rights. There may be other factions as well. Certainly there is an aspect of cult in the evangelical behavior of the organizations that are flat lying about the drugs they recommend. Or maybe it is just an easy money con game.

One shouldn't underestimate Big Pharm money to fund sock puppets, prob from Eastern Europe, to inflame the debate and divide - who makes money from Trans - that's the question to ask. The answer is: Big Pharm from getting kids hooked on lifelong drugs plus the money market, who bet on Futures market (betting Big Pharm stocks will rise). It's always about the money in the end

Some of the so called charities that promote transitioning children are a long con.

who makes money from Trans - that's the question to ask

That's interesting. I've never thought of it like that (and I love a good conspiracy theory..). That would make a lot of sense.

I certainly think this is part of what's going on

I see people who are gender dysphoric or confused about gender as being as much victims in this as women

not so much the mras, the ones with a sexual fetish and the ones building careers and industries on it all

What do you mean by "take their sexual fetish out in public"? If feminism is against sexual stereotyping then men dressing in a feminine way shouldn't be seen as a fetish any more than women dressing in a masculine way. I'm quite happy with men having pink hair and wearing fishnets or dresses in public as long as they don't say they're doing it because they are "really" women. They're just men who find the male orientated range of clothing a bit narrow and boring.

2rebecca you are describing men who are non-conforming in their gender expression. I've never come across any poster on this board who has a problem with this.

There is a separate group of men who have a sexual fetish about wearing women's clothes (i.e., find it a turn-on and do it deliberately to become sexually excited). Again this is fine as long as they do it in private and don't involve non-consenting people in their sexual fantasies. 'Taking their fetish out in public' might e.g. involve a man finding it sexually exciting to insist on coworkers calling him 'she' while wearing lacy knickers.

Rebecca, read this. It's written by Anne Lawrence who is an AGP transsexual. It explains the difference between AGP and GNC presentation and it also explains the behaviour of some aggressive transactivists as well as anything ever written, I think.

pfox.org/Shame-Rage.pdf

@LangCleg that's a good read - I'd deduced many TIMs were Cluster B by their behaviour - verbal and physical rage - but hadn't seen any research - another piece of the jigsaw
Thx

I think it's a pretty appalling indictment of society, that the only way some feminine men can be tolerated, especially by men, is to persuade them that they are, in fact, women. There are cases of men / teenaged boys who have detransitioned & who are in fact, just feminine men. Like that's so terrible?

What do you mean by "take their sexual fetish out in public"? If feminism is against sexual stereotyping then men dressing in a feminine way shouldn't be seen as a fetish any more than women dressing in a masculine way. I'm quite happy with men having pink hair and wearing fishnets or dresses in public as long as they don't say they're doing it because they are "really" women. They're just men who find the male orientated range of clothing a bit narrow and boring.

It is a fetish for many. It used to be accepted that fetishistic cross dressers exist. Have a browse of any trans forum and you'll see many examples. On Reddit men questioning whether they are trans or just have a fetish are usually told that it's normal to become aroused when wearing women's clothing, that "cis" women get turned on by getting dressed and looking at themselves and that they are definitely trans.

What do you mean by "take their sexual fetish out in public"?
A number of men, most recently a police officer, have declared themselves to be genderfluid under the transgender umbrella so they dress in traditional menswear and are to be addressed was a male and on days when they dress in traditional women's wear they expect to be addressed as though they were female.
They are AGPs taking their sexual fetishes to work with the added gratification of putting on a male dominance display.
That is what I mean by taking their sexual fetish out in public. Rather like the men who walk around town with their girlfriends on a leash.

@2rebecca

Transwomen can be divided into two categories. Homosexual transsexuals, which is what most people think of as transwomen. And autogynephiles, which, in old money are fetishist cross dressers.

A quick read of this thread which was written by, and for, women married to transwomen, will explain.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3101834-trans-widows-escape-committee

They are AGPs taking their sexual fetishes to work with the added gratification of putting on a male dominance display.

I think this is what a lot of people don't understand about raging AGP. It uses the tropes of femininity to demonstrate abusive masculinity.

As one of my favourite Twitterers says, it really is the penis announcing itself.

"Just wondering that a lot of the trans rights thing (as applied to born men who claim they are real women) is so pervasive because it is actually a Men's Rights aggression campaign using transsexual people as human shields and proxies."

I don't hear many of them complaining about it. They seem quite happy for obviously misogynistic men to abuse women in their behalf.

I don't see MRA using trans as human shields, rather both using each other for mutual gain.