6 women 'convicted of rape'

[SeaRabbit]

So according to statistics released recently 6 women were convicted of rape in 2016, and sexual offences by women have increased a lot over the last 10 years:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/more-women-convicted-of-sex-offences-bfdvv2w37?shareToken=87cfa91f45f367ce2bc851f2ce9d505b

I can understand that there is, rightly, more recognition that women can commit sexual offences, and they should be punished for it. But I have difficulty understanding how a woman can 'rape'. It doesn't say 'attempted rape' which I can understand. Does anyone know how we can get behind the statistics to find out more?

Alessandra strictly speaking rape requires at least one of the perpetrators to have a penis. There are occasional very rare instances of "common purpose" where a woman (of the old-fashioned cunty variety) is convicted because she, for example, held the victim down while a man raped her. But these cases are very, very rare, and certainly 6 in one year... vanishingly unlikely. I suspect that at least 5 if not all 6 of those "women" had penises.

Also re. the three transmen mentioned by Leebella - in the UK they would have been convicted of sexual assault by penetration, not rape. Both offences are considered equally serious, and both carry the same sentencing guidelines, but in the UK rape is, as Alessandra correctly notes, penetration using a penis.

Note the law states his penis.

I wonder if they’ll change the law to state his/her penis?

What if a woman blackmails a man (who doesn't want sex) into having sex eg "have sex with me or else I will....". Would that be rape?

I don't really see any way a woman could physically rape a man, unless the man was asleep and happened to be erect and the woman just decides to go on top?

Am I the only one who finds it odd that Leebella's first post on MN is a zombie thread that they've resurrected?

traceyracer what part of 'his penis' as specified in English law do you not understand? In your scenario the woman would need to have a penis to commit rape.
You often post on this topic, I thought you'd have a better understanding of the law...

I don't really see any way a woman could physically rape a man, unless the man was asleep and happened to be erect and the woman just decides to go on top?

I know someone this probably happened to. They had been occasional casual sex partners but on this evening he had turned her down as he'd decided there were problems with the whole relationship, and then later after he was drunk he passed out, and woke up and found they were having sex. It's possible he changed his mind and agreed and didn't remember but it didn't seem all that likely.

That had occurred to me too, user (mind you "user-allthenumbers" usernames are also often trolly ones too ).

She also appears not to have read the thread, otherwise she'd have already seen references to the penis-specific nature of the definition of rape in UK law. Hmm, maybe she'll come back to enlighten us, or maybe it was just a drive-by zombie resurrection.

I spoke to the office of national statistics about exactly this in 2016.

As others have said, rape MUST be with a penis, OR an 'inchoate' conviction, which is more truthfully described as inciting/encouraging/assisting another person, a man, to do the rape, whilst not actually being the rapist.

Of course, police forces have been recording perpetrators by self ID since 2009 so the number of penis owning criminals recorded as 'females' has dramatically increased.

Cross post with Goose. I've heard of instances of that happening too - and also the fact that (just as women sometimes orgasm involuntarily during rape) men occasionally get erections as a stress reaction, or involuntarily. (It's also not uncommon for victims of male-on-male rape to ejaculate as a physiological response to stimulation of their prostate, even though they did not consent and are hating every moment of their ordeal).

I think though the events as described would still legally count as sexual assault rather than rape in this country (though morally they'd still be as terrible).

What is the definition of a penis? If a transman had an approximation created, could they then rape with it?

What is the definition of a penis? If a transman had an approximation created, could they then rape with it?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Firstly, I think that that would be classified as a prosthesis, not a penis. If they were carelessly charged with the crime of rape and prosecuted then I imagine that they might be able to contest the case on the grounds that they do not have a penis?

Secondly, as far as I can see the Sexual Offences Act 2003 recognises the sex of the perpetrator, so a "transman" is female and only a male is able to commit the crime of rape with, quote, "his penis" .

It has already been mentioned that the crime of "Assault by Penetration" can be committed by anyone who penetrates someone else without their consent with something other than a penis. My understanding is that that is what would apply in your transman scenario.

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/publications/item/sexual-offences-definitive-guideline/

However, @AlessandraAsteriti is the legal expert.

How different sections of the press would report such a crime is anyone's guess.

would self-identifying transwomen be recorded as women

www.scotsman.com/news/crime/police-scotland-criticised-over-allowing-suspects-to-self-identify-gender-1-4939550

'Police Scotland was asked under Freedom of Information legislation when it stopped recording incidents according to a person’s biological sex and began recording according to self-identified gender.

A force spokeswoman responded: “I can confirm that there was no ‘effective date’ for this process, rather it has evolved '

Not sure if this is the case in England/Wales/N Ireland.

The law in Scotland is different to England and Wales - the penis has been de-sexed. There is only mention of Person "A"'s penis, and surgically created penises are specifically included in the definition of the crime of rape.

Wow. Somebody has actually gone into all the details. Incredible.

Thanks, Betsy.

I wonder why Scotland bothered to update the definitions?

Does Scotland also have the equivalent of the rest of the UK's crime of "Assault by Penetration" @BetsyM00 ?

There is a book on amazon by an attorney general which covers such topics it’s called Woman who rape men (Female Sexual Predators) by John Davis

I don't think it's possible to rule out joint enterprise on the basis of lack of media. Lots of crimes aren't covered in the media for all sorts of reasons. I can imagine women involved in sex trafficking and gang crimes could be prosecuted under this as well as the child abuse scenario mentioned above.

I wonder if they’ll change the law to state his/her penis?

I can see transwomen being able to claim a legal defence of "I couldn't have raped her, because the law says it needs to be with HIS penis, and I am a "her", so I do not fit the legal definition of a rapist, due to my ladybrain".

I can remember a few of these women

Davina Ayrton
www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-hampshire-35726292

Lisa Hauxwell
www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-39209982

for everyone affected by this.
This is hugely offensive gaslighting.
These rapists are clearly not women, because women can’t do penis-specific crime. We should not insult women further by calling these rapists ‘women’ in official statistics. Third category is needed.

To all of the people on this thread saying a woman can’t rape or how can a woman rape and those saying you have to have a penis to rape. You are so wrong it is sickening, one of the biggest issues to do with the wrongful conviction or accusations of rape is thinking like that. “Rape is any insertion of a persons mouth anus or vagina with ANY part of the body or foreign object withou that persons consent. That works both ways if a man is drunk to the point where he is incoherent and a woman puts his penis inside her in any way shape or form. That’s rape.
Thinking like that is why so many people are wrongfully accused and have there life ruined by uneducated opinionated fools.
Feel free to comment with your opinions.

Are you in England or Wales, Gentle? Definitions vary from country to country.

I’m in England, the words might change or law talk might be slightly different. But to say “ a woman can’t rape someone” is stupid in any country, language or meaning

Does Scotland also have the equivalent of the rest of the UK's crime of "Assault by Penetration"

Yes.

'Sexual assault by penetration' and 'sexual assault': 'sexual assault by penetration' is when the attacker sexually penetrates the vagina or anus of the victim without their consent. The penetration could involve a part of the attacker's body (for example a finger) or an object (for example a bottle or a vibrator).

The attacker might also use his penis. There is an overlap between the offences of 'rape' and 'sexual assault by penetration'. This is to cover cases where the victim is not sure if they were penetrated by a penis, for example, because they were blindfolded at the time.

from

www.gov.scot/publications/information-help-rape-sexual-assault/pages/7/