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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

I'm a Guider

28 replies

drspouse · 05/03/2018 18:49

Please don't shout at me!
I'm planning to contact GirlGuiding to ask some questions but I'd like some clarification.
I'm going to ask:
Is GirlGuiding an organisation for people of the female sex? Or has it now given up its exemption under (what is the act called?)
Do they agree that girls can dress however they want and to whatever activities they want and still remain girls?
If so, how exactly does a girl become a boy or vice versa?
As children who decide they are now of the opposite sex have no legal status (legally they are still their birth sex) are we under any legal obligation to admit boys who think they are girls, or vice versa (the website talks about trans members who want to join but someone mentioned asking girls who identify as trans to leave? Where was that?)
For residentials, we are told "Some people may not feel comfortable sharing accommodation so in this case an alternative option should be provided."
We are also told "A person does not have to disclose to you if they are trans. If they do, you should respect their confidentiality."
And
"Alternative, more private areas [for changing] should be made available to all young members - including trans members - should they wish or request it."
So I'm going to ask if we can disclose that someone is trans in order to provide separate changing and sleeping areas for other members.

It also states "When a young person is 18 or over, it is unlawful to tell other people that they are trans unless the trans person has given you permission to do so"
I assume legally this is only true if they have a GRC.
If they do, we'd have a record via DBS, so we'd know if an adult was trans, and my question is going to be as above, can we ask/tell so that other members can have separate accommodation or changing areas?
And if they don't have a GRC, presumably we have the legal right to ask?
Finally it says "When someone is under 18, it is still good practice not to tell other people [that they are transgender] unless they have given you permission to do so."
I presume that keeping it from parents is massively against safeguarding guidelines. Can anyone point me to chapter and verse?
Thanks!

OP posts:
Original poster
drspouse · 05/03/2018 21:11

I have just started a FB group for gender critical Guiders. If you'd like to join, please message me.

OP posts:
ChampiontheWonderHamster · 05/03/2018 21:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
drspouse · 05/03/2018 21:35

Thank you Champion I think that's what I'm looking for.
Anyone else have any input for me? Safeguarding? The relevant act?

OP posts:
namechangedasimaguider · 05/03/2018 21:38

Ok , I will have a look on the gguk website and post some links.
Back soon!

namechangedasimaguider · 05/03/2018 21:42

www.girlguiding.org.uk/making-guiding-happen/policies/girlguiding-policies/equality-and-diversity-policy/transgender-gender-reassignment/

This is dated jan 2017, before then we were "single sex"

newtlover · 05/03/2018 21:44

I would ask them about how Guides will continue to be an acceptable group for daughters of culturally conservative groups who want girls to be in a female only environment.

Original poster
drspouse · 05/03/2018 21:50

Hi @namechangedasimaguider I got my quotes from my OP from those.
It's external stuff I need advice on - legal and safeguarding stuff.

OP posts:
notanotherspartacus · 05/03/2018 21:50

I have sent a PM about the FB group. Have name changed for this message.

namechangedasimaguider · 05/03/2018 21:51

Ok, will look. I am sure I read some detailed information on here.

TerfyOwl · 05/03/2018 22:00

Also namechanged Grin
Is it a secret group drspouse? I have a number of other members on my fb profile, and parents, and need to deal with this carefully...

ImAGuiderToo · 05/03/2018 22:01

This could be the straw that breaks this camel’s back.

When I was first sent the guidance, I decided to ignore it, feeling it probably wasn’t relevant to the age group I lead. I thought I’d deal with it in the event it happened.

But actually I realise that I should be questioning how I would deal with this practically. I take my pack camping and on sleepovers so the residential is relevant. We also take the pack to do water sports regularly - changing in a communal changing rooms. There are only 2 so leaders go in one, girl’s in the other - where does the TiM go? Or do we stop doing water sports?

GrooovyLass · 05/03/2018 22:03

Also a Guider, following with interest.

Original poster
drspouse · 05/03/2018 22:04

Terfy it's closed but you can only see closed groups of people who are also in those groups.

OP posts:
Original poster
drspouse · 05/03/2018 22:14

Ok so to break it down.
GENDER
Is this a protected characteristic?
Or can we only have groups for biological girls/women, or people who've undergone gender reassignment - as those seem to be the protected characteristics?

OP posts:
GrimDamnFanjo · 06/03/2018 00:58

@drspouse consider making the group secret or it will be found on Facebook...

TerfyOwl · 06/03/2018 01:24

No. Anyone can see who is in closed groups. You just can’t see the posts. Sorry - I can’t join unless it’s secret at this point. My community is too small.

Original poster
drspouse · 06/03/2018 01:49

I appreciate that, but if it's secret then I or someone in the group has to friend all new members and I'm not sure I want to do that either.

OP posts:
TerfyOwl · 06/03/2018 01:57

I’ll have a look and see.

TerfyOwl · 06/03/2018 01:58

That took ages to post, sorry.
Yeah it’s a conundrum.

Original poster
drspouse · 06/03/2018 02:12

That's partly why I'm not posting the name of the group. FB search is pretty rubbish too.

OP posts:
qumquat · 06/03/2018 06:40

I think it's the Equality Act your looking for. I can't remember the date but I'm sure others will. There is an exception for private facilities for women and girls which most orgs are now ignoring.

DoctorW · 06/03/2018 17:59

@drspouse - I have messaged you.

MuddlingMackem · 07/03/2018 18:29

My DD is a guide, and whilst I think in our area it's very unlikely they'll have to deal with this I'd never say never. Where would we stand if I gave a letter to her guide leader saying that we as her parents do not give our permission for her to share accommodation with transgirls but have no issue with her sharing with transboys?

SeniorRita · 08/03/2018 00:17

Equality Act was 2010. Gender Recognition Act 2004.

To add people to secret fb groups you can do that with just their email address (the one they use for fb, obvs) no need to 'friend' them on fb.

Pretty sure gender is not a protected characteristic, sex is and transgender status is, but not sure about gender. Will check tomorrow.