Scottish Govt Consultation. What did you think? What next for Gender Self ID?

[AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth]

Feeling a strange sense of relief now that the Scottish Consultation deadline is nearly done. Waiting for 5pm then hitting the wine, as there's still a no travel advice here.

What did you all think of it?

I used to do a lot of work in bid management and overall it seemed to me like a badly written and rigged bid request. It was as though they based the requirements of the proposal on a pre-selected solution. If I had produced like that I would have got my arse kicked and if we received such a rigged proposal (from a government, no less) it would be certainly be grounds for complaint.

Also, proposing that non binary status should be written into law is barking. Non binary has no basis in reality. Are they on drugs? I can't believe a government would release a proposal for legislation on the basis of complete and utter GUFF.

I am mixed about some of the SNP's proposal, for example, the named person proposal was a scandal, but they have done some good work. Have completely lost any respect for them now, releasing this shoddy work which will have an unprecedented impact on women, girls and on children with no obvious advantage to transgender people at all.

I do think that they will push it into law regardless. And given that most of Scotland or UK have no real understanding of the implications, I foresee a mighty shitstorm ahead.

An independent poll has already been conducted - it was commissioned by Wings Over Scotland.

ScotGov don't think much of WOS so it will be ignored, but the results showed only a fifth of adults and a quarter of young people supported the changes.

I've filled it but I think we've wasted our time. The SNP are determined to be seen as ultra progressive and this ticks a lot of boxes.

It wasn't a straightforward thing to complete. I know some people gave up part way through.

Imo, regardless of the outcomes the SNP will bring in Self I.d. anyway

Oh no, I've just remembered I forgot to point out the ridiculous nature of their statement about penalties for people who had been lying when self declaring - what on earth would be proof that they weren't really having the right feelz?!

I do think that they will push it into law regardless
So do I sadly. Yes it was an awful piece of work. Its horrifying to think these people have such power.

Couldn’t agree with you more OP. It was utterly leading to the extent a lot of questions didn’t make sense or weren’t possible to answer unless you were already bought in to self ID. Makes me very worried that it’s already a done deal politically.

I’ve no doubt they will steamroller it through regardless.
One of the most insufferable things will be big mouth TRAs like Roz Kaverney/Madigan/mimmymum etc. Gloating all over the place like they are today over the apology by the BACP chairman for showing a letter by Stephanie of Transgender Trend.
The cowards have fucking apologised for printing it- see Dr Andrew Reeves on twitter 😡

I'm not getting too worked up about it. Unless something very weird happens there will always be more women than transexuals.
If the law change occurs the implications will start to be felt and more women who think this is something eccentric but harmless will realise their rights are being attacked and sexual stereotyping is making a comeback.
There will be a backlash eventually.
I'm surprised Ruthie is keeping qiet about this. I'd have thought as a Tory lesbian this is the sort of thing she'd hate and she could use it to attract more women to the Tories (not that I've ever voted Tory but the other parties seem cowed by fear of being called transphobic.)
It may of course pass and affect only a handful of people and no-one really give a monkeys about it and we may wonder why we got so worked up about it in 10 years time.
I do worry about women's sport though.

It was terribly worded. Most of the questions didn't make any sense. I answered as best I could, but the agenda was very clear.

Let's see.

What will happen is that the Scottish Government will introduce draft legislation with a view of implementing all the things it was positive about with the exception of the removal of the grounds for divorce. It will hold a consultation on the draft legislation which it will implement in pretty much the way it thought of in the first place.

The desired direction of travel in any Scottish government consultation is always a well lit and well sign posted highway.

Makes me very worried that it’s already a done deal politically

Every consultation I have responded to professionally was a done deal.

I don’t believe consultations are genuine requests for input before making a decision, but suspect the decision has generally been made already.

But I filled it in anyway. Why make it easy for them!

I objected to the non-binary thing due to binary gender not actually existing. How can they legislate on something that has no legal definition?

No point in an opinion poll as most people don’t actually understand the issue and would say they were supportive of trans rights as that seems the obvious ‘good’ thing to be.

I very begrudgingly think you are right Lass

Someone mentioned above wings over scotland survey results. They are here once you scroll to the bottom-
wingsoverscotland.com/the-law-that-nobody-wants/#more-100651

Bloody hell Waddle - I've just been reading the tweets on your link.

I'm thinking of printing them off and taking them to my MP.
Why do Twitter allow this ?
I've just realised I didn't even get to the survey results

It was painful. It took me weeks to do. I read a post somewhere on a recent thread that said something like 'If the sky was green, do you think the leaves on the trees should be pink or blue?' which kind of summed it up for me. If you don't agree with the basic premise of self-ID the rest of the questions were meaningless.

I wrote a paragraph or three for most of the questions but I think I might have fucked it up on the last question about the impact assessment because I ran out of steam. I politely described the many ways their impact assessment was shit and then went through the list of things the scottish govt. are apparently committed to, to advance sex equality. I politely described how self-ID would render each of them meaningless or impossible or would make things worse. Until I got to the last one which was about women's representation and I just put 'Lily Madigan' because I was tired and fed up and FFS Lily Madigan. I'm now worried they won't publish my response as they'll decide it's offensive because I have targeted an individual.

There will be loads of women who haven't written anything, just gone through and ticked the boxes. I expect them to publish numbers and if they don't a FOI request is in order. 'No' is a complete sentence, after all.

They should publish all written responses that are not considered offensive. While the trans equality report was a steaming pile of shit, the written responses that were published as part of it are a valuable resource, despite Miller ignoring them. Whatever the scottish government decide, that evidence will still exist and we can use it.

Delurking. I filled it out and submitted for all the good it will do.

Someone suggested that if SNP's proposal for self-identification becomes law in Scotland, then the resulting GRC would be transferable throughout the rest of the UK. In other words, a person born in England could travel to Scotland, sign a piece of paper and thus gain a GRC, then get a new (English) birth certificate. Does that seem possible? (Like getting married in Gretna Green.)

If not, there will be two completely different GRCs in different parts of the UK.

I was horrified they even asked about non-binary. The whole thing is just nonsense on stilts.

It's like they started a question with "given that Nessie exists and is valid, what should we feed her?"

Yeah Smurf they're awful- lots of good comments though!

AAK

I filled it in, but I have to say I'm another one who sees consultations as simply a way of shoo-ing in done deals. This one was particularly blatant though in its bias.

The consultation on the future of civil partnerships was launched with the statement that there was absolutely no intention of introducing mixed same civil partnerships, even though the consultation included questions about that. Interestingly, the results of that consultation were released very recently and include a reference to the consultation on the GRA, so the Scottish Government are making a connection between the two.

@Waddlelikeapenguin

Does anyone have church of scotland information? I cant believe they wouldnt oppose gender self id (a bit enemy of my enemy for me but needs must)

I meant to phone and ask about their response to the consultation, but forgot. I'm a Parish Minister. Will try to remember to do that tomorrow or Monday. It's likely to be bland and non-committal though as General Assembly hasn't discussed this at all, other than agreeing to the production of guidance for congregations about how to welcome transgender and gnc individuals. That was agreed almost 2 years ago and the document is to be launched sometime within the next next.