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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Things I don’t understand regarding gender selfid

25 replies

Bumblebzz · 28/02/2018 13:16

The list is much, much longer than this but here is a start:

  1. Why are lesbians the only group I hear to be targeted by TRAs for not wanting to have relationships with transwomen? Why are straight biological men not similarly targeted? If transwomen believe themselves to be actual women then why aren’t they making straight men acknowledge this, and to take it its (il)logical conclusion, why aren’t they calling straight men “transphobes” for not dating them.
  2. Why has the Equality Act not been used to protect safe spaces? So in the example of LM taking their school to court (I gather, from what I’ve read, that they did this and won, please correct me if I have got the wrong end of the stick), why didn’t the school refer to the Equality legislation to prevent schoolgirls having a transitioning boy enter their changing rooms etc? This simply doesn’t make sense to me.

I need some help please, so much doesn’t make sense...

OP posts:
Efrig · 28/02/2018 13:22

Because men’s rights trump women’s rights.

They target lesbians because they hate women.

Women are easier to push around than men because we’re physically weaker, generally smaller and socialised not to stick up for ourselves in an aggressive manner.

If we became as violent, nasty, entitled and threatening as them they might back off. Who knows.

WiseOldHag · 28/02/2018 13:29

The lesbian thing - it's my understanding that this is a fetish. These men want to dress as women and pretend to be lesbians to have a 'girly' sexy interaction. That real lesbians are not attracted to men in dresses, just isn't playing along with the fantasy and so leads to anger.

bellasuewow · 28/02/2018 13:30

You raise a couple of really good points op. I think this is why people are so angry because the equality act is in place but it is being undermined because people are simply too intimidated by not wanting to be seen as transphobic. People are just not brave enough to uphold the equalities act. Good point about the lesbians. I think this shows that the trans activists who support self Id are a group of aggressive mysognist, straight men who are Autogynephiles so really see themselves as straight men who just want to attack women.

DoctorW · 28/02/2018 13:33

Hello @Bumblebzz

I'll try to answer your questions! My opinions rather than facts necessarily!

  1. Why are only lesbians being targeted for not having relationships with Transwomen.

Its because lesbians are a minority group and their voice is not loud. Plus society doesn't really care about lesbians much (not the old fashioned types that don't call themselves queer). They are easily bullied by what is essentially a group of straight men who have 'come out' as lesbian women in mid life. This group of TIMS are dripping with male privilege and think its their right to be validated.

In contrast straight males would just tell TIMS to f*uck off if they said they have to sleep with them. Its about the power differential really. Also the TIMs that would want to date men are the gay males who have transitioned to female. So this group is use to have less power within the patriarchy - of which the straight males are top of the pile.

  1. Why has Equality Act not been used. No one has ever taken a school (or any other organisation) all the way to court. There have been not test cases about this. Lily Madigan just threatened the school with court action and the school gave in. Court process is lengthy and the school probably decided it didn't want to take the risk financially or publicity wise.
TerfyMcTerface · 28/02/2018 13:34

Men have always resented the fact that lesbians won’t sleep with them. And now there is an opportunity to put pressure on them to do so.

WiseOldHag · 28/02/2018 13:34

..[so relieved that my children have all grown up and left school]

Datun · 28/02/2018 13:39

Lesbians are targeted because a lot of these men are straight, heterosexual men. The fact that they identify as women requires validation that they are women.

They're not interested in men because they're not gay. They're not interested in straight women, because straight women don't have sex with 'women', only men, and that ruins the validation.

So the only cohort left is lesbians. It gets them sex with a woman and, crucially, validates their womanhood, at the same time.

The equality act is not being invoked because transactivists have done a real number on public opinion. Elevating the protected characteristic of gender reassignment above that of sex, in people's heads.

Many people don't want to stick their head above the parapet, because they feel as though they are going against LGBT rights, a marginalised minority, it's not progressive, etc.

When what they are doing is not upholding the equality law, using the reasons that was designed in the first place. To protect all the characteristics.

And of course, you have plain old sexism. People listen to men, not women. They are shouting the loudest and being the most dominant.

Where are all the transmen demanding sex with gay men? Or demanding men be called cis? Bloody nowhere, because no one gives a shit what women say.

And, they probably don't say it anway because many are gay themselves. And women aren't in the habit of going around demanding sex from people who don't want it.

Socialisation, innit.

Mouthandtrousersall · 28/02/2018 13:44

India Willoughby is an example of someone who expected to find a successful straight man boyfriend because he purchased large breasts and has grown long blond hair.

I expect is a bit of a niche dating pool.

LangCleg · 28/02/2018 13:45

I agree with Datun about #1.

AGP TIMs go for lesbians over sexual relationships because THAT VALIDATES THEM AS A WOMAN. Lesbians fancy other women. If straight women were interested in them, that would confirm them as males. Something that must never happen.

That's why straight women get shouted at about changing rooms and toilets. If all women, lesbian and straight, accept AGP TIMs into those spaces, that is validation as a woman.

It's all about what validates the inner identity and what doesn't.

Bumblebzz · 28/02/2018 14:48

Thank you all so much for your responses, it is helping me make sense of what seemed illogical.

So is there no example of an actual court case over equality act versus gender recognition?
I can’t help but hope that if it were my daughter’s school relenting to let boys share her private spaces. I would have protested. But maybe not, in reality, as everyone is so aftraid of not being seen to be “pc”. And I get the impression that kids are more likely to think this is all way-okay as they are too young to understand the consequences.

OP posts:
Karatema · 28/02/2018 14:48

The Scottish Government's proposed changes seem to be pro gender self Id. If you feel strongly about this, either way, then please answer their review questions. Unfortunately this closes today so you need to do it today but you can just tick the appropriate boxes.

You don't need to live in Scotland to complete this

SimonBridges · 28/02/2018 14:53

Link to that please?

MyBrilliantDisguise · 28/02/2018 14:57

Here's the link

Mouthandtrousersall · 28/02/2018 15:01

I hate the phrase PC but in this situation ITS TIME TO SAY IT'S PC GONE MAD.

When I hear the most amazing women possible all saying the same thing I know I'm not wrong. And I know men are not women.

MyBrilliantDisguise · 28/02/2018 15:14

I've completed the form - took about ten minutes.

Karatema · 28/02/2018 15:32

Thanks for the link Brilliant Smile

Waspnest · 28/02/2018 15:32

Bumblebzz, DD starts secondary school in Sept and actually now I don't give a toss - if a boy in her class claims to be a girl and uses the female changing rooms I will kick up a storm. I'm curious to know what the school would do actually, maybe it would be relieved to have a parent question the issue?

Bumblebzz · 28/02/2018 15:45

I’m prepared to do the same Waspnest!

OP posts:
Efrig · 28/02/2018 15:47

Aren’t these AGPs going to get fed up if no one will sleep with them? Perhaps this ridiculousness will die a death.

Babdoc · 28/02/2018 15:57

Thanks for the link - have also completed it.

MyBrilliantDisguise · 28/02/2018 16:13

One multi choice question was:

4 If the Scottish Government takes forward legislation to adopt a self-declaration system for legal gender recognition, should this
arrangement be open:

I chose:

A. only to people whose birth or adoption was registered in Scotland, or who are resident in Scotland?

In the comments section, I put:

Then people in the rest of the UK will know where to avoid if they want a safe space for women.

Grin
WiseOldHag · 28/02/2018 16:39

I've never come across such a biased document pretending to be a government consultation.

MyBrilliantDisguise · 28/02/2018 16:40

Me too! Really awful.

Waspnest · 28/02/2018 17:01

Yes I think Mermaids/GIRES/Stonewall were involved in setting the questions and told them so in the conclusion bit.

HermioneWeasley · 28/02/2018 17:04

I think the issue with the equality Act is that there is an exemption which can be used, but there’s no requirement to use it, and the trans rights orgs have done such a good job of propaganda that few people even know the exemption exists. Organisations have all been told it’s their requirement under the Equality Act to open up women’s spaces to men who identify as women.

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