Government announcement on petition to ban medical intervention to change gender for under 18s

[NiceHotBath]

I couldn’t see a thread about this, apologies if I’ve missed it. The Government has responded to a petition seeking to ban medical intervention to change gender for under 18s:
www.gov.uk/government/news/voice-for-justice-uks-campaign-about-gender-reassignment

I think the summary is that they’re not going to do so, but to keep the law as it is.

Wow HughE. That’s so sad - like the thalidomide babies?

Could you link to the research if poss?

Also when did the use of these hormones start?

Transgender advocates conflating of intersex with transgenderism is part of what has caused so much confusion.
At a time when doctors no longer try to chemically and surgically alter intersex infants, we see transgender advocates encouraging the drugging and surgically altering of children who are not intersex.

I am wondering if this is a social class thing, too.

Are Mermaids etc. being encouraged to peddle their stuff in elite private schools as well? Or just in state schools?

Because that would also have a very, very different interpretation

I.e. if the "transgender" stuff is being pushed in state schools, but not in elite private schools - then, what does that tell us?

HughE

Intersex people have got nothing to do with transgenderism. And I was reading today, yet another plea by intersex people to stop using them.

They are actively against surgery. They do not want to be associated with an ideology that is pro surgery.

How does your theory account for autogynephilia?

An exclusively male fetish. And not characterised by femininity at all, quite the reverse.

Most AGP individuals are extremely masculine, pre feminising hormones or surgery.

TRAs, autogynephiles and people with gender dysphoria are not that way because of antenatal drugs but because of complex reasons around societal expectations of gender compounded by serious mental health issues. I suspect you're muddying the water Hugh.

I should think Hugh's theory is incredibly transphobic.

Given that trans people have existed for centuries, before drugs were ever administered to pregnant women.

It has been some years since I read the MRAs advocating drugs to pregnant women to ensure a manly man birth or a girly girl birth.
I wanted to think that ethical doctors would refuse but now I see that there are fewer ethical doctors than I had hoped.
A local man's entire surgical practice is removing little girls breasts.

My understanding was children can only get puberty blockers before 16 (reversible apparently), sex hormones after 16 and surgery after 18. Sounds reasonable to me. Keeping a child pre pubertal up to 16 would not be done lightly. And any of those things require a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, not a young person or parents say so.

I was confused about difference between blockers and actual hormones and it seems like lots are.

mummybear701 - have you actually birthed and raised any children?

Yeah. Giving drugs to healthy children. Sounds reasonable to me.

Yes 2, both born girls and still happily girls/young women. Whats that got to do with the facts?

Thank you for your answer, genuinely. I appreciate it!

But why are you so in favour of your daughters losing their protections?

And I am also asking, is this teenage transgender meme being promoted among state schools but not private schools?

But not so much among elite private schools, such as Eton? Can we ask what is Eton School's policy on transing/transitioning?

I wonder how the medical profession know what the long term effects of puberty blockers are on children? In the past they have been given for a short time to pause early puberty, not to halt in the long term. I also imagine the social aspects are hard for these children - it must be very isolating to be the only child in your social group to not go through puberty. It must contribute to them feeling different to others.

Also, why is it seen as necessary to block puberty? A prepubescent 16 boy is no closer to a 16 girl than a 16 year old boy going through puberty.

BigDeskBob, sadly, there are certain factions who are encouraging and pushing this among teenagers in state schools.
I am asking whether this is happening in Eton and Harrow.

Most girls will have finished puberty by 15 (although they may grow and fill out a little more).

Boys have more development after that. They fill out, and most guys don't completely stop growing till they are 19-20.

According to the transgender identifying male teens I have spoken with they are convinced that the puberty blockers and hormones will mean they will look feminine and not require as much facial surgery to look the way they want to.

@BigDeskBob I wonder how the medical profession know what the long term effects of puberty blockers are on children? In the past they have been given for a short time to pause early puberty, not to halt in the long term.

They don't! Puberty blockers are powerful chemotherapy drugs that are approved for use for treating serious conditions like prostrate cancer. Their use to trans kids is off label, not supported by experimental evidence.

Their off-label use in precocious puberty has produced loads of complications:
www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/
Side effects seem to include reduction in IQ, just what you'd want for your kid! (Men who take it for prostrate cancer use the term "lupron brain" to refer to memory loss and cognitive decline.)

So what we're witnessing is a massive uncontrolled experiment on hundreds of children in the UK, and many thousands elsewhere.

Do we know if for example Jazz in America could go off the drugs and develop normally as a man if he wanted to? Or is it too late? Does anyone know?

busyboysmum

It's too late for jazz. The blockers blocked his male puberty, then the cross sex hormones gave him breasts and a curvy figure.

But his penis remains that of a prepubescent boy.

Nothing to be done about that.

The cross sex hormones don't give you a female reproductive system.

Which is why they are now in a quandary. Because there's not enough material to create a neovagina.

As for as I know, he's never had an erection, or an orgasm. Because the genitals aren't developed enough.

But the part that is really scandalous, is his doctors, on air, seemed surprised at the outcome.

Bloody surprised.

I really wish someone would investigate it.

Because, it looks as though this boy, is not only permanently sterile, and on lifelong medication, but his sex life is fucked.

A decision, which is mother insists was his, and made the age of 11.

And this teenager has got everyone telling him he's an inspiration, he is feted and celebrated wherever he goes. Not to mention being solely responsible for his entire family's livelihood.

The pressure on him is profound.

Not entirely on topic, but I’ve taken lupron in the context of assisted fertility and it made me feel like shit. My emotions were all over the place and I had very little focus. That was over a 2 week period. I can’t imagine taking it for longer.

I read recently the blog of a mother whose daughter was taking lupron to block puberty. In order to try to protect against the side effect of losing bone density, they gave her a small amount of testosterone. Unfortunately the father got the dose wrong and massively overdosed the daughter, thus sterilising her at age 11. The parents were upset, but since their 11 year old child had told them she didn’t want kids anyway they thought it would be ok. This dabbling with drugs off label is revolting and will provide ripe ground for lawsuits in the future. It feels like the Wild West to me, a bit like the private fertility industry (although at least there I was a consenting adult).

Polly I completely agree. I think the lawsuits from these children will ruin the NHS

@Datun , even newborn baby boys have erections so surely Jazz has experienced that! (If you didn't know that, you're far from alone...)