as a feminist, how do you deal with this?

[whatalicedidnext]

I probably got to peak TRA some time ago - not so much peak trans as I don't have a problem with the majority of trans individuals.

Then this happened. My daughter let me know that her long standing, accepted and liked by us all, boyfriend is transgender. She's also told me that it is OK by her and that she's never been bothered by whether a person is male or female (I'm not sure if she's telling me that she is bisexual or not, it's not an issue either way if she is - not for me anyway)

I too would be hoping that it fizzled out - but having watched my mum and my sister's tumultuous relationship over the years, I think you're doing absolutely the right thing with watch, wait, listen, be supportive. If you force her to take sides, chances are at this age, she will take her partner's side. If on the other hand you stay open to having conversations with her, being non-judgemental but honest, and letting her keep talking, you'll be there to pick up the pieces afterwards if need be.

I think Barracker's post upthread absolutely nails it regarding the pressure young women are under these days to be seen to "do the right thing politically" even at immense personal cost to themselves. It's this generation's "stand by your man, give him two arms to cling to..."

Better after than before!

Well yes! Although sometimes there are options for freezing sperm/eggs/embryos.

I think the most hopeful news is that she is planning to study abroad next year without him. That could change a lot. Of course you have to be supportive to your dd but hope like hell it fizzles out before she is sucked in to the current zeitgeist. I cannot see a happy ending to this. If he is like this now.....

I absolutely agree with valentines post at 13:40

How difficult OP - but it sounds as if you've dealt with it really well. It is so hard having to 'stand back' and watch our adult children make mistakes that we know will 'harm them in some way. But they have to do it in order to grow and become the adults that they need to be.

The fact that she will talk to you and will hear what you say is fantastic. Hopefully she'll use the time apart to leave him to his life decisions and 'personal identity exploration'.

The fact that she will talk to you and will hear what you say is fantastic.

And this

It must be very hard for you whatalice

Sorry to chuck in a stat, and it is not verified but stands the smell test well.

While the average age of a single woman getting married in 1971 was 22.6 years old, it is now 30.8 years old.

The chances of your DD going the distance with this lover are statistically low. I would just smile sagely and watch them both become very different people to who they think they are now over the next ten years.

Ask her if she knows the difference between "truscum" and autogynephiles. She may be instinctively supportive because of the "wrong body" rhetoric, which is of course a fallacy for AGPs. She needs to read up about it so she sees there is a clear pattern: the porn, the self obsession, the denial of biology and the ladybrain. Also tell her if she denies being a lesbian she will be decried as a bigot and ostracised from the trans activist community.

Ask any counsellor whether they advise their clients to start a new relationship near the beginning of counselling. They don't, they advise people to wait as relationships dont always survive drastic changes in one partner.

The only way for women to support people in transition and be fair to themselves is to end the relationship, and see if they want to get back together after they transition.

The entire thing sounds shit. I think all you can do is support her and listen, and hope for the best. For if you push the idea that it's not right too hard on her then she will just get closer to him and see you as the enemy. Give it time. Let it ride itself out. How long has her boy/girlfriend been transitioning? And have you met him?

We've known her boyfriend for years, he's great. Now we know he's transgender doesn't change what we think of him.

what is AGP?

As for porn and self obsession I think that's unlikely to be honest having seen how he is.

whatalicedidnext

I, personally, would suggest you to read the trans widows thread.

The fact that this boy is attracted to women, makes it more likely that he has AGP, rather than gender dysphoria.

This is difficult for you, because you don't want to alienate your daughter.

And you don't want to hurt her, either. Both entirely understandable.

But you sound like you have a good relationship with her. It would be useful for you to be able to spot signs of AGP, if this chap has it.

And, if she starts to express doubts, you could get her to read the thread too.

Either way, for all the reasons mentioned here, this is probably going to be a bumpy ride.

Distressing to contemplate, I know.

But I don't see the alternative.

If it goes well, then it's a plus.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3101834-trans-widows-escape-committee

I'm also linking to a thread which explains about the two types of men who transition to being women. As background. Perhaps read that one first.

I'm sorry to sound gloomy.

You sound like a great parent.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Sorry to chuck in a stat, and it is not verified but stands the smell test well.While the average age of a single woman getting married in 1971 was 22.6 years old, it is now 30.8 years old. The chances of your DD going the distance with this lover are statistically low. I would just smile sagely and watch them both become very different people to who they think they are now over the next ten years.

Getting married at 30 after being in a relationship for years and having a home, and children. It's just prolonging the party. Not the heart ache. You had to get married to embark in a long term relationship in the past, that's just not the case now and you can do it from the get go with no pressure.

He may not seem pornified, but there is a clear pattern with heterosexual Tims. It's worth reading about.

I would ask two questions to verify whether he is AGP:

1. Does he call women's underwear "panties"?

1. Does he call himself a "lesbian"?

I agree wholeheartedly with Handbaggage. Only 19? She going overseas without him next year? This relationship is over.

Just be nice about it now, let them get all the scandal and excitement out of their system and then likely they will break up when she comes back to find he has changed to the point he’s unrecognisable as the person she loved. It’s not just the clothes, he will find a whole new social circle. She will change a lot too. How could she not?

And yes, even if they get back together at that point, very few teenage relationships make it through to (what is now seen as) a reasonable age to have kids.

@whatalicedidnext not sure if I;ve encourntered you elsewhere here.

Just want to say I would be worried, but I'd try not to push her either way. I'd encourage her to be as selfish as she can. She's not his support committee, she's a teenager or almost still one.

I love my kids to bits but they have dominated my life (sometimes in a negative way) for the last thirteen years!

If this man wants kids he can have them later or bank his sperm. Just make sure they do not bank any embryos, very bad idea for your dd. As would be marriage, moving in or kids with any male at 19, 20, 21 etc (sorry for any who did that and it worked out well, but my experiences of family is marriages when people are young, or kids in your teens, you just do not stay together).

I;d recommend reading the trans widows thread and just encouraging her to talk to you, be her confidant and her sounding board.

And she does not need a reason to chuck him, none whatsever. It doesn't need to be becuase he is trans or whatever. She can break up any day for any reason and it is no one else's business at all, ever.

(Plus I'd really encourage her dad to hold back on being very anti this relationship because he may end up pushing them closer together.)

' not sure if I've encountered you elsewhere here.' I meant I think I have so 'waves' as they say on MN!

I meant my kids have dominated my life, I had my first late thirties. If I'd got pregnant early twenties I'd probably not have got a degree or traveled the world!

Every man who identifies as a woman requires the woman he is in a relationship with to lie, deny and diminish herself and the truth about her femaleness, in order to validate him

I agree with this. You're entire family will also be required to validate him along with everyone else in dds life .You're also going to be expected to validate her beliefs and feelings about it and that's going to be very very hard.

I'll be honest here, I could only go so far with this and rightly or wrongly i would be very angry with my dd if she expected me do this with him. I don't believe in unconditional support because sometimes it's not kind or in their best interest. Like others I'm very concerned he's an agp.

I wouldn't tip toe round this issue. I would tell my dd that I would still be welcoming, that I will use gender neutral pronouns but will not be manipulated into pretending something is true when it isn't so conversations like that from him wouldn't be tolerated. Its ok to disagree and respect goes both ways. Nobody gets to force their beliefs onto others.

As others say it will most likely fizzle out, but in the meantime I would feel very worried.