Gender detected at 5 but not

[Whinberry]

Both the Guardian and Telegraph yesterday ran an article about how gender is detected in the voice of 5 year old. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/16/child-gender-speech-age-five-research-university-minnesota.

It seems to me it emphatically does not support this conclusion. 28 boys between 5 and 13 boys selected by their parents for playing with girls and girls toys (and 'diagnosed' as gender dysphoria) were found to have speech patterns of the children they most commonly associated with (girls). It is suggested that this indicates both homosexuality and gender dysphoria us detectable from 5. No long term follow up. My dd had an Australian friend at 5 and picked up her accent to the point that everyone commented...

Why is journalism so poor?

WTF?

The thing about this is that those gendered speech patterns are socially conditioned. Early research into gender talk has been widely debunked. Most modern linguists look beyond binary gender when explaining differences in language.

Look at the research of Deborah Cameron vs the older research from the 70s of linguistics like Robin Lakoff.

I can’t actually believe any linguist worth their salt would still be researching in such a narrow out dated way.

I posted a post about this yesterday.

To be honest the 'research' shows nothing but adult homophobic stereotyping towards children and L&B.

The sample was only from parents who took their children to the clinic panicking about 'gender.'

I think the guardian have twisted it considerably.

Also, my Yr13 Language students are more critical and evaluative than this. Even they know that the old deficit models are out dated.

It’s bad reporting like this which is indulging a mass delusion.

Oh please, so they are saying all camp gay lads are actually transgender now?

Are they allowing comments or is this another piece of propaganda? #nodebate?

OH fuck off

The team found that adults rated boys who pronounced an “s” in a very crisp, hyper-correct manner as sounding less prototypically boy-like.

“This makes sense because that is the very same ‘s’ that is characteristic of gay male speech styles in the adult population,” said Munson, drawing on something he had identified in previous research.

So having a lisp is now a gender/gay thing? What the holy fuck stereo typing ? are we back int he 70s ? GAY men lisp really ???? FUCK OFF

Ek sorry I didn't notice your post.

sorry my general fuck off is not to you lovely lot.

Oh please, so they are saying all camp gay lads are actually transgender now?

Yes. All camp men are now women. Why? No idea. I have never met a camp woman, campness is a uniquely male behaviour and has nothing to do with female. Some people see it as not masculine so all non masculine men must be placed into the woman box.

Trans is a movement completely based on sexist stereotypes.

No adults lisp?? Well I do. I can't hear it myself but everyone else can. Annoys the fuck out of me. And I never wear make up, loathe clothes shopping and get muddy on bikes.

God forbid that male people who don't conform to the holy tenets of masculinity should be allowed to call themselves 'men'

Lisping and enjoying the company of female peers? That's not how we do things in the boss class

My kid had a teacher with a very different accent, for one term, who he adored. He spoke with her accent for months and months afterwards.

It's junk science. And the guardian should be ashamed of printing such deeply homophobic propaganda. But hey, they are very comfortable throwing women under the bus to support their trans aganda so it was inevitable that that more sacrifices would have to be made.

Oh shit.

So my 4 year old dd is actually American then?
I thought it was just from watching too much Disney, but the twang on some words is unmistakable.
Does anyone know the tax implications of this?

Looks like a typical Guardian story full of contradictions

“This makes sense because that is the very same ‘s’ that is characteristic of gay male speech styles in the adult population,” said Munson, drawing on something he had identified in previous research.

Then:
"We never see [that pronunciation] in adult men in gay populations or really in adult men very much at all, or women for that matter,” he said . “But what we do find is that they are very prevalent in stereotypical portrayal of gay men’s speech.”

Well, which is it?

Then later in the article:
While Munson said gender dysphoria/GID is a good predictor of who is going to grow up to be a adult gay man, he rejected concerns that speech traits in childhood could be used to predict future sexual orientation

So we can conclude nothing from speech, but if a child has gender issues, they might well be gay.

There certainly seemed to be a lot of confusion between homosexuality and gender identity. I tried and failed to find the original article but the main author seems to have published quite a bit on 'gay lisp'.

I do find it shocking the quality of what can pass for 'research'.

Terrible article. My 5/6 year old ds had a terrible lisp due to his teeth starting to fall out and the effect this has on word formation. I assume losing teeth and gaining a lisp for a short while makes him gender fluid

Desperate attempt to prove gender is a ‘thing’ in young kids where the evidence isn’t there so the article is all over the place.

Yes there are no gay men or less than macho butch straight men. Just macho straight men and women.
Mad
Ness

Well, I'm failing again at this womanning lark if women aren't supposed to lisp. I have quite a pronounced lisp, which is worse when I'm speaking my second language, weirdly (I am assuming it's something to do with the cognitive load, that I find it harder to control my lisp when I'm concentrating more on what I'm saying).

Anyhoo, I must now conclude that I am a gay man, because science.

Many studies show this. That is why there is a social contagion going on as well in so-called "trans" children.

With the accent, I had the same, when I got back from friends house my mum was always "how are you speaking".

Nannyogg - yes, this is bonkers. It's implying that accent is innate rather than learnt.

The reasoning's completely circular. A bunch of little kids whose parents think they sound a bit camp are hauled off to a clinic: a doctor subsequently records them lisping away and says "Absolutely, they sound a bit camp to me."
And therefore they've got to be told they're really girls and might need to be castrated?
Fucking hell.

"So my 4 year old dd is actually American then?
I thought it was just from watching too much Disney, but the twang on some words is unmistakable"

This is off topic but your DD may be autistic. My DD is autistic and has an American accent. It's apparently quite common we found out during diagnosis.