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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Shall we just all move to a new pronoun?

28 replies

Onlynever · 17/02/2018 17:39

So it seems that it is now a really big deal to some people that we use the pronoun that they like, not the pronoun we would expect to use for them. Eg. this guidance from a university, to its staff, about the most commonly preferred alternative pronouns:

"They/them/theirs (Shea ate their food because they were hungry.) This is a pretty common gender-neutral pronoun and it can be used in the singular. In fact, “they” was voted as the Word of the Year in 2015.
Ze/hir/hir (Tyler ate hir food because ze was hungry.) Ze is pronounced like “zee” can also be spelled zie or xe, and replaces she/he/they. Hir is pronounced like “here” and replaces her/hers/him/his/they/theirs.
Just my name please! (Ash ate Ash’s food because Ash was hungry) Some people prefer not to use pronouns at all, using their name as a pronoun instead."

In some workplaces, you are now expected to ask everyone at a meeting what their preferred pronoun is. Think about all the time that wastes, just on the off-chance that someone wants to use their own special pronoun.

So how about abolishing the he/she pronouns, and moving everyone onto the same gender neutral pronoun?
This is what used to happen in China. Men and women were all referred to as "ta" (he/she), with "tamen" as the plural (they). Until the 1920s when, because of influence from the West, they decided they needed a separate pronoun for women. Everyone is still referred to as "ta" though, it's how it's written that's different. It keeps things nice and simple.

What pronoun shall we choose?

OP posts:
Onlynever · 17/02/2018 21:10

If we constantly have to spend time and effort on getting loads of different weird pronouns right (as chosen by each individual trans/binary/asexual blah blah person) and get massively criticised if we gender someone wrongly, then that in itself is a good reason to get rid of multiple pronouns. The reduction in sex discrimination would be good too. It wouldn't solve all problems, but would be of some help, and give out the message that it doesn't matter what gender someone is.
I think we really need to have less emphasis on gender, not more (which is what is happening at the moment).

OP posts:
SusanBunch · 17/02/2018 21:39

But the ze/hir/hir is totally made up. I have also seen various other combinations. Do people honestly expect others to effectively learn a new made-up language in order to accommodate them? I honestly feel like I am living in a parallel universe. I have no issues with using people's preferred pronouns but Jesus Christ at least stick to the existing English language.

vesuvia · 18/02/2018 00:43

WaverleyOwl wrote - "some organisations (I work for the NHS) strip all identifying info from job applications so that there is no bias at the point if selecting applicants."

I'm in favour of reducing bias in selection processes but I do wonder how effective this currently is, in practice.

I think for many people our sex is revealed in job applications in less direct ways than just name and sex because, like it or not, the CV of many people does conform to some gender stereotypes. Does stripping out all identifying information cover less obvious gendering such as the name of schools or universities, or lists of hobbies? If it doesn't remove these, then it won't even things up for a woman who attended the "Sometown High School for Girls" or the "Philippine Women's University" nor even things down for the man who attended "Eton College" (for boys). Do the interviewers look at the person's non-work interests (that are often requested to assess how rounded the person's character is) and think "that's the 50th applicant for the job who lists hobbies as rugby and car maintenance. I bet it's yet another woman"? I have my doubts.

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