Utah school bans students from saying “no” when asked to dance [Edited by MNHQ]

[UpstartCrow]

This is being shared on Twitter.

www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/family-relationships/schools-decision-to-refuse-girls-right-to-say-no-if-boys-ask-them-to-dance-challenged-by-pupils-parent/ar-BBIZdka?ocid=st

''teachers had told the students, aged between 11 and 12, that they had to say “yes” when someone asked them dance.

Shocked by the policy, the mother took her concerns to the school principal but was simply told that that’s just how they organise their dances.

Lane Findlay with the Weber School District confirmed that it is in fact a rule, but added that it’s meant to teach students how to be inclusive.''

This isn't how you teach kids to be inclusive.

Myunicornfliessideways

but to me suggesting that 'no' is unkind, or refusing a request because you feel uncomfortable is unkind is a very dangerous place to go with girls. 'Kindness' is beginning to get confused with 'no boundaries allowed' for women and girls in particular, and that is bastardising the word beyond it's meaning.

This and:

RJnomore1

My child has the right to refuse to be touched by anyone she doesn't want touching her.

This.

We live in a society that continuously tells girls and women in covert and overt ways that their bodies are public property and to always put others feelings before their own. This is just another drop in the bucket.

We need to be telling girls that they have the right to say no. And we need to, as a society, back girls up when they say no, not tell them they are being unkind and not inclusive enough.

Boys shouldn't be forced to dance with a girl if they don't want to, either.

Learning to accept rejection is an important skill to learn, too. We live in a society where women and girls are assaulted or killed for saying no to a guy. We do not need to be reinforcing the idea that being rejected is some kind of bigotry.

Girls need to learn to deal with rejection in a healthy way, too.

There are other ways to teach children to be kind and inclusive than to force them to dance with someone they don't want to.

11yos are not touching each other at discos round here! This is about dancing which is very unlikely to involve touching imo.

My 12yo boy is absolutely horrified at the thought of touching a 12yo girl. He thinks it’s gross! He thinks he’ll marry a woman when he’s grown up but is embarrassed in their presence now. I do think 11-12 is different to 13-14. Very much so. I really don’t think this dancing is holding on to each other or chest to chest sort of stuff.

Can a girl or a boy then refuse to do any sport at school which involves any possibility of being touched by another team member?

I didn't like being bashed into by over enthusiastic net ball and hockey players. Thank goodness they didn't make us play rugby.

We are in Scotland, there is social dancing every year from reception (as described above) and one of my DS classes was told this year that you had to say yes to a partner if asked (he is 9yo). It was same rule for girls and boys asking. I was quite torn - I see the point made by Lass and CallYourDad, and there was definitely an element of teachers asking the kids to 'get on with it' and pick a partner to move on with the lesson. But it made me rather nervous. DC brought it up for discussion at home, as it didn't quite sit right with them either. I said to them that no-one ever HAS to say yes to dancing, but that I also expected them to be getting on with the lessons at school and not messing about or being unkind to classmates. I discussed with them that this situation in a school lesson was somewhat of a distinct case - teacher meant you had to say yes in these lessons, not in your whole life.

My older DS (11) has just got to the age where there seems to be more of 'asking xxx to go to the Christmas party with you' - from what I gathered, it was more boys asking girls and there was plenty of refusal going on :-) Teachers at the actual party organised kids in to pairs when they wanted to dance but were finding the pairing up awkward - that seemed entirely appropriate to me.

Most of the dances were progressive (ie swapping partners). Ceilidh dancing is more akin to a fun PE lesson than a potential intimate/romantic dance event though...

A teacher at my school told us that it was "rude" to say no when asked to dance back when I was in high school, and promptly got an earful from a bunch of budding feminists. I'm glad this girl's mum was willing to back up her daughter, who'll no doubt be getting the "saying no to a boy isn't nice" message from plenty of other sources already.

As well as teaching girls they are allowed to say 'no' and have that be respected, we also need to teach boys that girls are allowed to say 'no'. That this isn't a rejection to be met with anger. That any reason is good enough.

We are failing horribly to teach boundaries, consent and resilience.

I grew up in a Scottish family in England and I managed to learn Scottish dancing without lessons at school so we're teaching that fine!

Perking

Women during the Regency had the right of refusal, but if they refused a man they couldn't dance for the rest of the night. Hence why Lizzie Bennet has to grin and bear it with Mr Collins - if she doesn't dance with him she can't dance with anyone else!

Every year for a brief (blissful) period before Christmas we were spared PE and taught Scottish country dancing instead. This is in a school PE hall, in school hours with at least one PE teacher present (we usually had a mixed couple there) trying to get through as much as possible. The no refusing applied to both sexes.

This would have been great if we didn't have to wear our PE kit (basically big pants and t-shirts) and there wasn't a gale blowing through the hall.

It's pretty simple isn't it?

No or should feel obliged to dance with anyone.

Boys and girls need to accept being said no to

Any nasty laughing and sniggering and piss taking should be dealt with. No thank you should be the end of it on both sides.

Who says boys and girls want to dance anyway. Maybe boys want to dance with another boy.

Maybe a girl wants to dance with a girl.

Kindness should never override boundries.

Adults teaching children that they are not allowed to say no. What could possibly go wrong?

I find myself in a very awkward position here. I’m a long time lurker and poster on these boards but here I am defending the groping of 11 year old girls by boys.

Or rather trying to describe what Scottish Social dancing is like. As Lass says, the ‘touching is for a minimal amount of time. And the touching in most dances is pretty inoffensive (apart from lazy Gay Gordon dancers).

But something to remember is that kids have been doing this since primary school. They have been taught how to do it properly. It is in front on all their classmates, and more than one teacher. I don’t remember any inappropriate touching. And that was years of learning with hundreds of other kids.

So you have a nation of children. Who have learnt how to perform an important part of their culture. They can do it at any social situation that calls for it, and it is not seen as creepy.

And for those of you that say, “refusals and nastiness should be dealt with by teachers..” dream on. Can you really see the PE teachers coping with sorting our 60 kids squabbling with who to dance with?

If you don’t want your DC to take part, I’m sure they can sit out. They will love you for it, missing out on the most fun PE lessons of the year (I can still remember how much fun it was, even for a very unattractive child like myself). And they will also really enjoy not going to the school dance.

Can I just remind posters that this thread is about a school Valentines Day dance for kids, not Scottish Country Dancing, Barn Dancing, Country Dancing, or other organized forms of dancing.

Yeah, kids in Utah are not being taught Scottish country dancing. For Utah think Mormon, which is part of why this was disturbing, because Mormon girls already get more than enough social pressure to be passive.

Sorry, I’ll Gay Gordon off into the sunset....

Watch if, if you suggested a dance with the word "gay" in the name at that school you might cause a riot.

CallYourDadYoureInACult I'd join you but I'd probably tread on your toes

I used to love Country Dancing, but hated the school disco. They really aren't the same.