The case against 'cis'

[Seer]

As I'm having conversations on fb recently I'm noticing that using 'Cis' is becoming the norm (obv, only in some circles).

I'd like to be in a position to query its use but realise that I don't have a logical response, and "I really don't like it' won't cut it!

What do you see are arguments against it?

Thank you!

For one it implies that you make a conscious thought that "my gender and sex align". Personally, I have never had this thought.

In fact, I dare say most people don't, and it's only the ones that would rather be the opposite sex who have these thoughts.

Btw, this links in nicely with the fact that the argument always boils down to "I feel like a woman ergo I am a woman". "What does feel like to be a woman mean"? Proceeds to list stereotypes.

This thread has confirmed, with logic, my instinctive feelings against being called cis.

It would be interesting (and welcome) if a cis 'advocate' like @Trills were to give a counter argument after reading the thread.

Yes totally @MrGHardy!

Growing up I remember feeling very much that I wasn't like the other girls (e.g. I hated dolls with a passion, hacked my hair off, dressed horribly!) but even then I don't remember feeling either not-girl or boy. I just felt like me.

At some point I accepted feeling like I was somehow different to other women but I've never consciously thought "I'm a woman and I feel like one too."

I have aspergers and in hindsight, feeling different was just down to that, nothing to do with gender feels.

I have aspergers and in hindsight, feeling different was just down to that, nothing to do with gender feels.

There was a long thread a few months ago, here. About people on the spectrum and the trans ideology.

I'm paraphrasing, and forgive me if I get it wrong, but it was fascinating. The posters were saying that as they didn't recognise gender signals, it never occurred to them to have their preferences dictated by their sex.

Hence their preferences automatically including both masculine and feminine.

It's also well documented that autism is over represented in the trans-community.

Presumably because if you cannot feel your sex (as you imagine others do) based on preferences that, quite naturally, don't fit either box, the trans-ideology can seem appealing. Or something of a solution to that feeling.

If we could remove every gendered signal that existed, I should imagine that most people would have a far greater mix of masculinity and femininity in their preferences.

I have aspergers and for me I just feel like a person. I am a female person because I have a vagina, but I have never been “stereotypically” female in my hobbies or ideas.

I don’t get why some activists think that means they’re the opposite gender though. It just means gender as a concept is bloody stupid.

I totally agree with your last paragraph, datun.

As it's turned out, the way I look is fairly stereotypically feminine (and I think that is natural for me rather than conditioned) but my interests and behaviour are often more stereotypically masculine (apparently).

I'm very happy with how I am and I don't give it much thought, unless people start throwing around words like cis!

As it's turned out, the way I look is fairly stereotypically feminine (and I think that is natural for me rather than conditioned) but my interests and behaviour are often more stereotypically masculine (apparently).

Are you me? I look very feminine and love makeup, but hobbies wise I’m all science, documentaries, gaming and debating. I also get told I speak “like a man”, whatever the fuck that means (straightforward without bullshit apparently).

I suspect that in 30 years people younger than us will look at this discussion the same way we look at people in the 80s and 90s saying "I'm not straight I'm just normal"

I've seen that example used before but it isn't the right analogy.

There is a word for women who are not trans. It's woman.

There was not word for people who were not gay.

In any case, if the word 'cis' means 'real', the transwomen will want it applied to them too.

In fact, however you try to differentiate between women and transwomen they won't like it because they want to be the same as women, not different!

Honestly women and transwomen works fine.

"For one it implies that you make a conscious thought that "my gender and sex align""

Loads of women especially when we're girls spend an awful lot of time feeling unhappy with both their gender roles and the consequences of the sex of their body, and for really quite a considerable number this unhappiness translates into deeper feelings resulting in sefl harm, eating disorders, risky behaviour etc

I suspect there are men who feel the same about their role. Although interestingly when girls develop eating disorders they often seem to be aound getting smaller - we don't want to be noticed, we want to hide - often due to the development of breasts etc and the unwanted attention we get and also due to sexual abuse - while boys with eating disorders generally seem to be trying to get bigger - bulk up all muscly at least that's my understanding. That's a very different aim, if it is true. I'm not an expert just my thoughts.

Faire "In any case, if the word 'cis' means 'real', the transwomen will want it applied to them too."

I have seen trans who are post all surgery and hormone treatment call themselves cis already

End game is what I said on here about 4 years ago!

We have men (everyone knows who they are)
Women (who used to be men)
And ? non-people (which handily reflects the position of women in most of the world already, and the posiiton that women were in in the rest of the world until relatively very recently)

Using cis to mean non-trans and creating the cis/trans dichotomy ignores that there are people with gender identity disorder and gender dysphoria who don't identify as trans, some who never do and never transition, others who detransition. That part of the group is not small - by the GIRES's own stats that they put forth to Parliament, 4/5ths of their estimated population with dysphoric symptoms will never seek medical transition. That leaves 1/5th left of which some will detransition, sometimes repeatedly. How can they be called cis, it makes no sense for a dysphoric person to labelled as 'on the same side of', it's weird to use chemistry terms for it at all, but that's what is happening with this.

16ish years ago when I first transitioned, cis was not a thing. To me, it's like having a word for people without depression, you can't say they're all able or even mentally well because there are dozens of other options there. Labelling people as not something doesn't really work well and I think it's pretty toxic to expect people to label themselves as not-something.