Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Anyone else think the action against Tesco is important?

70 replies

CanalTrip · 08/02/2018 20:39

The legal challenge to Tesco about the disparity in salaries of workers in the shop, largely women, and workers in the warehouses, largely men, looks enormously important for lower paid women in jobs historically carried out by women.

This is the first step in what is probably going to be a long and painful legal, but also psychological battle to uncover people's unconscious biases.

OP posts:
GardenGeek · 09/02/2018 00:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pythagonal · 09/02/2018 02:11

I'd far rather be sat on a forklift wearing toe 'tectors, moving pallets around, than having to stack a certain amount of shelves in a given time and simultaneously have to deal with the public. I think there's far more risk of injury on the shop floor, tbh.

IAmSpartaCis · 09/02/2018 03:54

I don't agree with this at all.

For context, I'm a woman, an ex Tesco employee and I used to do a lot of cover in our store warehouse. It is EXTREMELY dangerous work at store level, and significantly more so at distribution level. Unloading products from a cage onto a shelf in store is absolutely not the same thing as running/staying on top of a large, busy distribution centre that needs to sort deliveries for all stores within their 'group'. To say the two roles are the same and demand equal pay is laughable - one comes with significantly higher risk factors and extensive training, especially in health and safety.

Distribution staff are specially trained for their roles in ways general store assistants are not. Store assistants could not walk into a distribution centre tomorrow and instantly learn how to do the job of a warehouse operative. The training and sign offs for operating the heavy machinery alone takes time and skill. They are completely different roles! I cannot stress that enough. I challenge any Tesco store staff member to do a week at a distribution centre, and still come out thinking they are entitled to the same level of pay for sitting on a checkout. I seriously doubt after a week they would have cleared much of their initial training.

It's got heehaw to do with gender, and everything to do with different job roles and 'danger money' premiums. Warehouse staff are at MUCH greater risk of injury and are tasked with safely and securely storing and loading every single product that comes through the back door. They sign and take responsibility for every delivery. It is no small job, and to suggest warehouse operatives are doing the 'same work' as shelf stackers and till workers is bloody ludicrous. I'm not saying one is more important than the other, but one requires experience/training/working in a more hazardous environment, and these factors ultimately command a higher rate of pay, and rightly so. This lawsuit may as well be asking for GA's to receive the same pay as team leaders and managers, despite not being trained for either role.

No store in my group discriminated against women for warehouse roles while I was there. It was simply a case of the best person for the job got it - some women, some men. I knew loads of women who worked at our distribution centre, and they earned the same pay as their male colleagues. Tesco pay their employees equal money for the level/role they are at/doing.

A nurse working in a state penitentiary will be on a higher hourly rate than a nurse of the same level working in a general hospital. The risk to injury/life is increased, different skills and additional training are needed, and companies will often balance all of this by paying staff a little bit more. A heavy goods driver will earn more than a delivery driver in a standard size van. You'll pay more or less for a haircut depending on the level at which your hair stylist is at. An office based project manager may receive some sort of 'hazard pay' every time they need to work on site. This with Tesco is no different. They are not stopping women from working in their distribution centres. If people want to earn that level of pay, they need to be willing to work in the environment paying it and gather the relevant skills and experience to do it.

Equality is not a pick and mix deal. It should be equal pay for an equal role. These roles are not equal, and as such, one does pay more. There is absolutely nothing preventimg these women from applying for higher paying roles within the distribution centres, or elsewhere with better pay. Better pay usually commands certain expectations, however, and if you're unwilling to work towards those expectations, I'm afraid that's on you.

The sexism and workplace gender stereotyping I used to experience at Tesco for working shifts in the warehouse was insane. But guess what? It wasn't men making the comments, it was women, young and old. No male colleague of mine ever treated me like some delicate little flower. My vagina never factored. I was met with general horror and cats bum faces if I ever suggested to female colleagues that there were overtime shifts going in the warehouse if they wanted them though. They didn't want to do that level of work or go through the necessary training. It was a 'man's job' Hmm I would put good money on these same women jumping right on this bandwagon, demanding more for a lesser skilled role, one that is ultimately much safer and more 'woman friendly' ... apparently Confused

I am right behind any woman trying to close the gender pay pay gap when in an equal role, sitting on equal skills, experience, etc. This is not the case here though.

frogclimber · 09/02/2018 04:05

Interesting comment, thanks IAmSpartaCis. And yet all of these groups must have had legal advice and this must have been that it wasn't a lost cause?

sashh · 09/02/2018 07:06

It is no small job, and to suggest warehouse operatives are doing the 'same work' as shelf stackers and till workers is bloody ludicrous.

No one is saying it is the same work, but that it is work of similar value.

As for risk/danger, all jobs should be as safe as possible, risk assessment is about the likelihood of something happening and the consequences if it does.

I'd suggest more shelf stackers go home with an aching back than wherehouse staff and have a hot bath to relieve it than someone operating a fork lift.

Obviously a pallet falling on you is going to cause more damage so you minimise the likelihood of it happening with equipment and training. It might well be that the shelf stacker's work is of less value, but how much less value? £100 a week?

Think about hospital work, a junior Dr on a ward will be earning less than a senior nurse (leaving aside management for now) senior radiographer etc.

The Dr has spent longer training but has less experience with patients.

stoneagefertilitydoll · 09/02/2018 07:09

I don't get it both jobs are open to men and women.

Except in practice that isn't how it works.

I worked in retail through uni. First job, I had to persuade them to let me do a sales role, I was the only female sales staff the entire time I was there - all other women were on the tills. I asked about a transfer to the warehouse at one point, and was told that it wouldn't happen because I was a woman.

Next job was in a supermarket. I arrived for the recruitment day, wanting a job in shelf-stacking or the veg department, and was immediately told to join the cashier group. There was a way things were done, and pretty, slim women went to clothing, men went to grocery and dairy, the rest of the women went to tills/customer service, and the rest of the men went to the warehouse. Bakery/Butchers/Deli were jobs where you had to know someone to get an 'in' or apply for a specialist job when they rarely came up.

Look in any supermarket, I bet it's still like that, and it's not completely by choice of the workers involved.

BartholinsSister · 09/02/2018 07:32

It may not be so much they have equal value to the business, it might be the need to pay more to attract people to do the warehouse jobs. Especially if they require forklift licences.

Extua · 09/02/2018 07:49

My DP is a labourer. He has never seen a female labourer on site. Why? The job is flexible, if you don't want to/can't go one day you don't. If you want to move sites, you can. It's well paid compared to other low skill work.

It's also very cold in the winter, boiling hot in the summer, all outdoors and extremely hard physical labour with lots of lifting. I wouldn't want to do it. But presumably it's all structural, women are actually clamouring to do the job and men just won't let them. Those fucking men, hogging all the hard physical jobs. Don't get me started on the dangerous jobs. Men are loads more likely to be killed or injured at work. They even have the gall to act like this isn't fair but women would love to do all the sexy dangerous jobs like roofing or waste collection, the patriachy just won't let them!!!

My point is that women aren't all victims, all the time.

I'm interested to know whose wages make the average £11 for warehouse or whose wages make the average £8 for shop work. Does the warehouse work include those with forklift licences etc who are on a higher wage as a result of that skill? Someone on the shop floor won't have a specific qualification/licence that pushes up their wage.

Jenala · 09/02/2018 07:53

I'm a social worker. The admin staff in my team are really really important and my job would be lots more difficult without them. They are integral to the team... I earn £10k more than them a year. I have to have a degree to do my job, and maintain a professional registration. However, arguably the admin staff have a lot of value and their input helps with child protection. I need them.

However as a team we are 99% female. I guess if social workers were men there would be outrage at this injustice?

QuentinSummers · 09/02/2018 08:08

Some of the pay claim is warehouse staff get double pay for working on Sunday's, while shop floor staff were recently forced onto time and a half.
That doesn't seem fair to me.

BartholinsSister · 09/02/2018 08:45

Perhaps the warehouse staff won't do it for time-and-a-half.

RaySwan · 09/02/2018 09:29

Upstartcrow

Who says it’s equal work, just because you’ve decided it is, does not make it so. And over emphasising “breaking pallets open” using “Heavy duty cutting tools” when in reality it’s cutting open the plastic with a Stanley knife does not make it comparable either.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 09/02/2018 09:39

It doesnt matter about the different jobs

It will go to court and if tesco can prove that their recruitment is fair, that warehouse staff arent given any extra benefits and that for some reason the training for shop floor staff is completely different to warehouse staff (ie some sort of certification) then tesco will win

Actively recruiting women for the warehouse roles and making it straightforward (if it isnt already) would be a great start

Its a societal change which is needed and maybe a huge country wide company is a good place to start

MasterWu · 09/02/2018 09:50

just because you found the whorehouse harder doesn't mean it is, or that someone else wouldn't find it harder

Well I imagine working in a whorehouse would be fairly hard work Wink

MasterWu · 09/02/2018 09:58

On a serious note though Extua is exactly right. How many of you saying they are jobs of equal value have ever worked in a warehouse? Hmm

It's fucking brutal. It's freezing cold, you're wearing uncomfortable safety equipment (Christ, steel toe capped boots are hideous) and you're walking literally miles a day. Oh and most shifts start at stupid o'clock in the morning. Some women are able to hack it, most don't. There's no conspiracy here. The work is physically harder, mentally harder, and in more difficult conditions. Of course they're paid more.

If I was CEO of Tescos I'd change the pay, but then transfer everyone of those women to the warehouse for the remainder of their employment and transfer the men to the store.

ChampiontheWonderHamster · 09/02/2018 10:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PiffIeandWiffle · 09/02/2018 10:25

Different jobs get different pay scales in all lines of work in all companies.

I have a problem if there are different pay scales based on sex, but it's fine for different roles.

I would argue that there is a lot more training required to operate in the warehouse /distribution type environment - it's also much more dangerous than the shop floor. The higher pay is an indicator of the greater investment the company has made with regards to training on the equipment and training in the environment.

One of my DC has worked in both environments & is now in warehousing - there has been a hell of a lot more training involved in the warehousing than there ever was on the shop floor.

All roles are not equal.....

AngelsSins · 09/02/2018 10:37

Extua prostitution is the most dangerous job, so don't give me all this "men are more likely to be injured at work" crap. A few years ago I remember reading that nursing was also one of the most dangerous jobs. And why don't we see men claimering for jobs as cleaners or carers? Maybe because their "women's" jobs so low paid?

NotAnotherJaffaCake · 09/02/2018 10:40

This is very similar to a case brought against the City of Birmingham which paid dinner ladies less than binmen, and the work was judged to be of equal value and the City had to backpay millions. Hope the women win.

NotAnotherJaffaCake · 09/02/2018 10:41

And the point is that Tesco has already decided these jobs are of equal value, as Tesco is using the same payscale for the jobs, but women are still earning less.

MasterWu · 09/02/2018 10:52

Extua prostitution is the most dangerous job, so don't give me all this "men are more likely to be injured at work" crap. A few years ago I remember reading that nursing was also one of the most dangerous jobs

Really? Where? A simple Google could show you that's not true...

uk.businessinsider.com/most-dangerous-jobs-in-britain-2017-2

Of course people doing the same job should be paid the same (depending on experience) but working in the warehouse is different and in my opinion harder than shop work. Working as a refuse collector is harder than being a fucking dinner lady

SweetGrapes · 09/02/2018 10:58

And the point is that Tesco has already decided these jobs are of equal value, as Tesco is using the same payscale for the jobs, but women are still earning less.

Now that puts a totally different spin on it.

PiffIeandWiffle · 09/02/2018 11:08

Working as a refuse collector is harder than being a fucking dinner lady

Makes you laugh doesn't it! I don't know anyone who would think the 2 are even remotely comparable in real life!

PiffIeandWiffle · 09/02/2018 11:11

as Tesco is using the same payscale for the jobs, but women are still earning less.

Are there pay benefits to certain training though? Most roles would pay someone a bonus for having a fork-lift licence for instance - so basic pay scale would be the same, but there would be scope for more pay for higher skilled operators, first aiders etc...

Alisvolatpropiis · 09/02/2018 11:29

Interestingly the law firm Lee Day is running almost exactly the same claim for Asda employees but without the disingenuous “it’s sexism” tag line. It has already been determined in that case that checkout operators (overwhelmingly female) will not benefit from the pay out.

Also supermarkets who own their own warehouse depot’s will not have to worry about this, so the likes of Morrison’s.

Swipe left for the next trending thread