How to be a Feminist?

[soupforbrains]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post over here in Feminism. I'm essentially posting because i want to learn more.

I have considered myself to be a feminist since I was about 14. However at around the age of 19 I realised I had actually not been a feminist at all and had just enjoyed saying I was a feminist. I then learned a little more but flipped from going to wrong way about feminism (the sort of militant women should do/wear/say this/that/the other because otherwise it's 'un-feminist') I later then briefly decided I didn't want to be a feminist if 'you have to follow stupid rules'.

In the years in between I have become more aware of what feminism really means. I think. I believe I am a feminist, and I certainly WANT to be a feminist but I worry that perhaps I don't know enough/ am not aware enough of things to be a 'good' feminist.

Can anyone suggest any articles or feminist works I could read which might help me find my feet?

Additionally any stories about what incident/article/moment made you feel the way you currently do?

One thing I do think feminism has been really bad about is the whole issue of raising children. When I was a young woman back in the 1970s we just sort of dismissed the whole idea by saying “Oh, there will be free universal child care for all” and moved on to something that felt more relevant to out arrogant young selves!

Incidentally, I don’t think that it’s being a SAHM that’s really the issue- it’s the way it makes you financially dependent on a man......

Has anyone been around long enough to remember the not-shaving-anymore thread? I think that was 2010 or 2011. Some of us stopped shaving our armpits or legs. It has occurred to me just now I very rarely think about the hair on my legs. I sometimes wonder if people notice my armpit hair when I go swimming.

Anyway this section can be life-changing. I haven't bought razors for ages. But it would never occur to me to feel judgy towards someone who shaved/waxed/etc.

Sorry for your huge list, OP - my last post crossed with yours!

www.bl.uk/sisterhood/articles/womens-liberation-a-national-movement Loads of videos here including one about the 7 aims of the Women's Liberation Movement.

I do think we would be so much more productive if we had free, 24-hour community-based childcare.

I also think childcare workers should be paid more.

I don't shave my legs and never have. My underarm hair has dwindled so much as I've grown older that I don't bother with that now, either. I've never even done a bikini line wax or similar.

But I do pluck out the old lady hairs that keep showing up on my chin, the bastards!

Not sure I'd regard any of these things as deliberate feminist or non-feminist acts though - more a complete lack of interest in being pretty.

Yes chin hair is immune from political examination -I've decided

Wiggy yes I do actually understand this. I think I mentioned earlier that I hadn't thought through the wording of my comment. Of course I don't think that every choice a woman can make, is, by virtue of being a choice, feminist.

I just meant that I didn't feel that having made the choices the PP said she had made that it made her a 'bad feminist'. the concept of the 'ideal feminist choice' I can understand as being the choice in any given situation which gives the greatest benefit to womenkind and the feminist cause?

Bertrand yes that is a good point and fits with what Wiggy was saying.

It would be very difficult to be the perfect feminist, because it would require making choices which we may not enjoy/be comfortable with (because of the effect the patriarchal society has had on our formation) in order to make the biggest difference for womenkind. It would take more strength and courage than I have, but obviously that is why it's called suffrage. There is a suffering in the fight for freedom?

I think though that we have to accept that we are in the cage. I do want to break the cage, obviously. I try to break the cage. But sometimes I want to go to the beach with the kids without having to spend the day having my leg hair commented on by arseholes (which would happen because the patriarchy is strong where the beach is!).

And that's okay - I can let myself off for that. Not perfect, but permissable.

That thread was 'resisting femininity '?

I remember it. Dittany was growing a hair on her 'chinny chin chin'!

Exactly. It isn't a bird's fault it's in a cage. Other birds who flew past and went 'oi just get out of the cage' would be arseholes.

omg thank you CHDS! That's it!

I think they still talk about it in AIBU in hushed tones whenever feminism is mentioned

I shave my armpits, but only because I find them really itchy if I don't.

I don't shave my legs very often, but i can't claim to be letting them grow for the benefit of the feminist cause as I wear opaque tights to work and am single. I do shave my legs if my legs are going to make a rare excursion outside of clothes, and if I have a date. So I am not yet making the feminist choice in those areas.

I stopped wearing makeup apart from when I feel like it a long time ago, but obviously while it feels to me like I'm 'doing it for me' when I do wear makeup, the reality is that I'm probably not. I'm doing it because it boosts my confidence, but it boosts my confidence because I think it makes me look better/more attractive to men and so then that loops round doesn't it...

As a feminist, I don't think that I think many of the wrong thoughts, but i also think that I don't do many of the right things

I too have been a stay at home mum, and changed my name on marriage. I also shave my legs (when I CBA) and probably many other things non feminists think feminists are all about.

I am still a feminist, I have learnt a lot about choices, and the choices I make as an individual.

The main thing I take from feminism is I can acknowledge the choices I've made are not wholly free from how I have been brought up in society.

I am still free to make whatever choices, but I am aware of subconscious influences that may have brought me to my decision.

I don't judge other women on their choices. But I understand a lot may not realise, that whether they like it or not their choice may not have been free from influence.

I have dropped in and out of the feminist board for a few years, and have learnt an awful lot from lurking and occasionally throwing caution to the wind and debating, I may not have conceded but I certainty came away with plenty to mull over and form better arguments or form new opinions.

But did you create the patriarchy, soup? Did you create a world where women have less advantages and choices than men?

I'm putting my money on no.

A 'right' thing could be sharing a campaign on here. It could be starting a blog to share your thoughts about being a feminist, because tbh women want to read those thoughts from someone like you who is starting out. It could be joining facebook free sites and keeping an eye out for women getting out of homeless accommodation, and giving them some of your old mugs and dishes.

You don't have to live a perfect feminist life - especially when there's no concensus about what that is.

I femenist is someone who does the three following things:

1. Believes that both sexes should have equal rights.
2. Believes that this should be achieved by granting women more rights/furthering the interests of women.
3. Acts on said beliefs.

Beyond that you are talking about different factions of femenism.

Bookmarking this thread for later.

While I instinctively understand that some things are "wrong" I really need to read around the issue some more.

To (mis)use a PPs analogy, I can see a couple of the bars in the cage, but I am currently not well informed enough to see the cage as a whole.

I have read "Delusions of gender" which was really interesting and surprisingly readable, but that is the extent of my reading so far.

Super can I just say that you've had me craving popping candy for the last 2 hours. completely off topic but I had to say it.

Yes I do appreciate that no one is the perfect feminist and that I do not have to live the perfect feminist life, nor should I feel bad for not living said life. I do however sometimes feel bad sort of preemptively, about the things I do not know.

that's a bit of a mind warp there, but I'm sure someone will understand what I'm saying.

Nobody gets where my user-name is from!
cherry flavour is the best.

I honestly think the most productive way to learn about all of this stuff is in conversation, which is why I am v glad you started this thread.

Nobody posted on my suffragette one :(

Hi soup! I know you have a massive reading list already, but I just wanted to add that I'm currently reading "our bodies, ourselves" and really enjoying it

Suffrage isn't to do with suffering! www.etymonline.com/word/suffrage

Another thing I've found is that it is far more liberating to accept that some of the choices I make are not feminist, than to try to perform mental gymnastics to squash them into a feminist-shape box.

ah, so it isn't. oops.

Beyond, who is that by?

The Boston women's health collective - this is the version I have.

It covers pretty much everything women's health related, as well as relationships (including abuse).

I shave my armpits, but only because I find them really itchy if I don't.

Heh, I find the opposite. If I do shave them, they are fine for like 2 days and then get itchy as hell for maybe a day, then back to normal. So I tend to only actually do them if I will be swimming, or (rarely) wearing a dress or something. I do feel the pressure to 'conform' when out in public sometimes.

Thanks for this thread OP, I have been wanting to 'up my feminism' and sometimes struggle to articulate my thoughts when debating, esp with my FIL, who talks shit and mansplains at me. 'You can't be a feminist- you do XYZ'. Having two impressionable DS I want to positively influence them to understand women and women's issues- as much as I can.

Not quite understanding 'trans causes' has been the catalyst for me to research/ Google/ read more around why I might be thinking differently to what I'm being told to think by the media, reading the threads on here has been enlightening- I've always considered my self as being very open minded and inclusive so I couldn't figure out quite why I wasn't empathising with a cause like I usually do.

I'll read some of the suggested books, I'll look online at the reviews and start there.

Any suggestions on who I could follow on Twitter? I'm guessing not Owen Jones? But in the interests of seeing both sides of the argument- maybe?

Welcome soup
Who to follow on twitter:
Jessica Eaton
Julie Bindel
Sister Outrider
Glosswitch
Karen Ingala Smith

Who to follow on Facebook
The Pool
MUH men's rights activism
Feminist current
Radfem Collective