Terminology

[dorade]

In the ongoing trans debate, it has become clear that words, terminology and definitions are vitally important to making progress. If people have different definitions of the same word, how can the debate progress?

Further, it is easy to repeat well-used phrases without really questioning them.

The one concerning me at the moment is whether we should say someone 'is transgender' or whether it is more accurate to say someone 'identifies as transgender'.

Does anyone have thoughts on this or on other examples of how words are used?

whether we should say someone 'is transgender' or whether it is more accurate to say someone 'identifies as transgender'.

Which you choose there indicates whether you think that being trans is "real" or not.

I suppose it depends on how you define transgender.

I don't think it's right to say that people identify as having gender dysphoria, as they don't choose to feel the way they do. The same goes for any mental illness.

It's not a case of what you should say, if we were all saying what we should say like good little women, we'd all be repeating "transwomen are women" over and over.

What do you believe?

I tend to use "males (or females) who identify as Transgender" personally but I'm pretty sure I'm not "supposed to".

It's not a mental illness. However, as you manage dysphoria, you don't get to dictate to others what it means to be a man or a woman. Expect some push back if you start defining what people should feel.

I have stopped referring to anyone as transwoman or transman.

I now say 'trans identifying male' - because lets face it, trans identifying females are so quiet they aren't the ones shouting down anyone.

I think alot of the general public think Transwoman means 'trans identifying female' and the rest play on that.

It also helps when saying 'trans identifying males are men'. As it is fucking obvious they are when you say it like that.

I won't use woman or man any longer unless I mean woman and man as the proper sex classifications that they are.

I say TIM/TIF on here.

Out in the wider internet, I realise this is likely to start an argument and ears will close, so I say trans person or so-and-so is trans.

I thought GD is was a mental illness, isn't it in the DSM?
Either way I wish we could say "Sally is a male who has gender dysphoria, please treat her with sensitivity" rather than "Sally is a woman".
The unfortunate fact is there's no way of telling the difference between Sally with genuine gender dysphoria and Sandy with AGP who gets off on wearing frilly knickers. Neither of whom are women.

Oh I remember now, Gender dysphoria is not classified as a mental illness anymore because the TRA lobby are against that. It's now classified as a medical condition.
Body dismorphia is still a mental illness though.

It's surprising how forceful the TRA lobby are in getting their own way.

I reckon 'lady' could become a really useful word to describe people with an inner certainty of their ladylikeness.

'identifies as transgender' is probably the best option.
Now that every public form filling exercise has become "what gender do you identify as?" it seems inconsistent for TRAs to object to the phrase 'identifies as' for themselves, yet impose it upon the rest of us.

I think 'identifies' as because it reflects the reality.

So I could 'identify' as someone who is right handed, which says nothing about the reality. Or I could say "I am right handed", which would be an untruth, because I am not.

In the real world, I would say "trans identifying male".

I think alot of the general public think Transwoman means 'trans identifying female'

I assumed this for a long time.

I don't really think it is a mental illness/condition as such any more or at least as is defined by the DSM. Gender Dysphoria is but that accounts for only a few of the current trans people. It's become a belief system - a religion if you are being kind about it, a cult if you are not.

Seriously, I don't think a bunch of people on MN can settle it. There is a lot of confusion. As TellsEveryone says, a lot of people think Transwoman means 'trans identifying female' and the rest play on that. TBH very few people have given the whole subject much thought, why should they, beyond thinking: each to his own, live and let live.

There is also a lot of shyness about what you actually want to say, or feel you can say. Transpeople are understandably pissed off when other people are curious to know whether they are 'really' trans, whether they've had the surgery. Only a small proportion of transwomen have, though I suspect most people not on MN assume it's part of the definition.

For many women, the penis has been an offensive weapon and it's been used against them - and they want to know if you're carrying an offensive weapon even though it's rude to ask.

It's a horrible operation, and the commitment required is a fair guarantee of good faith. It's a pretty safe bet that anyone post-op will be welcomed in women's spaces.

By the same token, it's a horrible operation so no one should be expected to undergo it. So where does that leave the decent-but-nervous-and-intact transwomen versus the autogynophiles and utterly opportunistic predatory flakes? How can you possibly tell them apart?

You can't, and you can't tell them apart from post-op Ts either, which is why self ID is an utter betrayal of transwomen. As well as natal women.

I joked earlier about 'lady'. I'd like to suggest this description of performing feminine gender as distinct from 'woman', which should be is a biological term. I suggest it as a parallel to the distinction between gender and sex. Its value may have sunk among feminists but don't you think it still carries the air of distinction that many transwomen desire? Or maybe it's not for other people to pin labels on anyone.