Propaganda Guardian article re Irish trans self-id law

[NotAWhacktivist]

I am in the middle of a discussion in a political group I am in on the trans issue, and self-identification etc. Someone posted this (as "proof" that the law did not cause women to lose any rights ).

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/15/monumental-change-ireland-transformed-transgender-rights?CMP=share_btn_tw

A few quotes and comments on it:

"At the age of 19, Glavin was able to undertake a simple legal process to declare herself female."

"There were 277 applications to change gender in Ireland from September 2015, when the legislation came into force, until September 2017. The figures have grown steadily month on month, and activists believe that this gradual increase rather than a sharp spike indicates that people are accessing the facility as they need it along their coming out journey."

"No quantitative research has been completed on the effects of the legislation but activists report that it has had the significant knock-on effect of a reduction in mental distress. "

Well they would, wouldn't they.

"Among those the Guardian spoke to, there was no evidence of the legislation leading to individuals – in particular teenagers – being pressured to undertake medical transition, or men falsely declaring themselves female in order to invade women-only spaces, as some feminist activists have feared."

Nice dig there are stupid feminists. Key phrase there is "amongst those the Guardian spoke to", and there is no evidence they spoke to anyone even remotely questioning, critical or even a source that could give any kind of valid answer.

As far as I can make out Ireland houses prisoners by biological sex, not identity (I have written to a government minister to clarify this).

"Critics of self-declaration have also raised concerns about the impact on the monitoring of sex discrimination and the provision of sex-segregated services, such as refuges or prisons, but, with relatively low numbers of applicants in Ireland, no such conflicts have been initially reported."

They don't explain who they spoke to to check this. Also, lets face it, women are used to having their boundaries run rough-shod over. I think there would be no reporting to police unless it was very bad, and where else would they report other problems? And how would the journalist know if they had, as they might be more civil than criminal issues? If someone reported a problem but got knocked down at the first hurdle, they might give up and it might not go any further than a local facility manager or the like (although I think on the whole gyms and the like would side with women and not people who were clearly male).

Now I can well believe, considering the small number, and different cultural situation, that there may not have been any instances in terms of what people would deem abuse or of women losing out. There seem to have been only very small numbers of school-age children, so possibly no girls got passed over for sports or the like for that age.

"While political consultation is key, according to James Morton, manager of the Scottish Trans Alliance, another feature propelling reform in Scotland has been the close collaboration between feminist and transgender activists. This has been far less apparent in the debate around Westminster reform.

“In Scotland there’s really strong communication between women’s equality organisations, trans equality organisations, politicians and civil servants. Scottish Women’s Aid and Rape Crisis Scotland have become trans-inclusive without any problems occurring, demonstrating that improving trans equality is fully compatible with improving women’s equality, and avoided misunderstandings about legal reform.”

England’s equality sector is more fragmented, Morton suggests, and it is harder to communicate with politicians in Westminster. “Sadly, this can create fears and myths about trans equality but constructive discussions are making positive progress. As people look into the facts and speak in depth with trans people, they start to appreciate the need to improve trans equality.”

As far as I can make out Ireland houses prisoners by biological sex, not identity (I have written to a government minister to clarify this).

TENI says its genitalia or birth cert but they don't say if that applies to changed birth cert from GRA also.

Should be noted the head of the director of care and rehabilitation with the Irish Prison Service has only dealt with 2 transgender prisoners in 8 years.

www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/irish-prison-service-has-no-policies-to-protect-lgbt-prisoners-1.2519426

The reason why women working in Scottish Women's Aid and other organisations do not complain and report problems, is that they are in fear of losing their jobs and government funding.
Not to mention the fear for their families, from doxxing, rape and death threats.

It's not that women are happy with the situation, but that they cannot say so.

Tbh, after the Guardians article on Gary Dean last week, I honestly can't think of them as a credible news source any more. They are a left wing daily mail for me now.

Which is quite scary really.

That is not journalism, is it? It's Public Relations.

Apologies for ZOMBIE thread resurrection, but this thread came up when I googled self-ID in Ireland, and I was struck by this post /

LefkosiaTigers

Not to mention the fear for their families, from doxxing, rape and death threats.

A friend used to run a B&B in Dublin, and told me what I thought was a far-fetched story - a woman staying there told her she'd left her home and was in hiding, in fear for her life. She said she worked in a children's home in Wales and had complained about the sexual abuse of children in the home, and had had serious death threats. It sounded unbelievable, who could think that there were organised groups of men who were not only abusing children, but threatening anyone who tried to do their job?

The threatening of GC women, the rush to get rid of safeguarding... it's all frighteningly similar to the culture that allowed abuse to take place in the past.

Meant to say that the B&B incident was back in the eighties, well before the scandal broke, which is why I couldn't believe that the woman's predicament was real.

It's as if history just keeps repeating itself, but those in authority learn no lessons from the past, but insist this new situation is completely different.

The Guardian only opens "comment" on non controversial issues these days.

They're afraid of the same backlash from the public that can be seen in the comments section of the Times. Dissenting voices must be silenced. A united front presented. TWAW. Radical feminists are the only ones who disagree, and everyone knows that radical feminists are all horrible lesbians and feminism has gone too far.

WPUK Ireland:
Statement: The Irish Question
In the debate around proposals to change to self-identification under the GRA, people often refer to the other countries where this has been adopted “with no problems”. In particular, Ireland is cited as a good example.

However, there seems to be a misunderstanding about the way Irish equality law works and a lack of knowledge of the legal exceptions and caveats which mean Ireland does not, in fact or practice, have a simple self-declaratory system. To claim it does misrepresents the situation there.

The law was changed in 2015 and was due for an audit this Summer. No audit of its impact has yet been published.

The Irish law is outlined here and must be considered in its interplay with other different Irish statutes.

The Irish Gender Recognition Act allows self-ID but is reliant on a quasi-judicial exercise of ministerial competence – in other words, a gatekeeper.

This is an administrative process which includes:

– mechanisms to require information and overturn administrative decisions;
– an exclusion for married people, with or without spousal consent;
– the exercising of discretions which allow, for example, housing of prisoners in the estate relating to their sex." (continues)
womansplaceuk.org/the-irish-question/

Voices:
An Irish Woman speaks
First of all, thank you so much to A Woman’s Place UK for giving me the chance to talk about this. I feel like I am going mad. I’m Irish and I live in Ireland. We introduced self ID in 2015. At the time, I was supportive of it, because I believed what I was told: that this had no implications for women; that it would only benefit trans people.

I didn’t think about it again until I saw men I know on Twitter, bullying and insulting women that they called ‘terfs’. I assumed that the women were in the wrong. But I don’t think you persuade anyone by insulting them, so I went on to some website or other to find out what they really thought, so I could engage with their arguments properly. I found a list of questions written by a gender critical feminist: What is a woman? What is gender identity?

I believe that a woman is an adult human female. I don’t have any gender identity that is separate from that fact: I experience being a woman because I have a female body and because that female body means that society treats me in a particular way. So in what way did I believe that trans women were women?

I listened to and read what a lot of trans people were saying in the hope of finding out what a gender identity was, but it always came down to stereotypes. Then I read about what was meant by ‘cis’, and I resented it. Not because I hate trans people, but because I do not identify with society’s idea of women, I have always been disgusted by it.

I saw people who were, in every practical sense of the word, men, say that they were women purely because they said so. And I started worrying what this meant in practical terms.

A while ago I was in my local swimming pool, and a man swam across the pool from the men’s rooms and entered the women’s changing rooms. I was there on my own. I ran to get the gym staff and they got him to leave. I spent the next few hours afraid he would spot me and recognise me as the woman who had got him thrown out.

But now, I don’t know if I could get him removed. I don’t know what the law means, and nobody will tell me. I know that a barber was sued because he mistook a trans man for a woman. When I write to TDs (Teachtaí Dála – members of the Irish parliament) they ignore me. I’ve stopped using the pool and the gym.

The worst thing is, I can’t talk openly about any of this" (continues)
womansplaceuk.org/an-irish-woman-speaks/

The TRA two-step:

1. Intimidate and bully anyone who mentions any problems with their latest demand. Shut them out of the conversation wherever possible.
2. ‘No one’s mentioned any problems.’

This report collates testimony on the silencing of serious concerns in the domestic and sexual violence sector. It also collates survivors voices.

fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/FPFW_report_19SEPT2018.pdf

Am sorry as this is an old thread but just wanted to add that I did not even know when this was passed and is shocking really. Lots of things have been very hush hush especially cases like Barbie Kardashian, a young transfemale who is very violent who beat up his mother, attached a social worker while she was driving the car, Barbie was in back seat and attacked the driver with her legs and nearly choked her out and gouged her eye out and then put in a women's prison even though has a history of violence against women. What the hell is going on. How was this law allowed to pass as women's spaces not safe now. Prisons, toilets, changing rooms, refuges. All these stories are difficult to find and seems people in Ireland do not even know what is going on. People in Scotland please write to your government and do not have the law changed there as women's and daughters safety must come first. So still in Ireland women still are being controlled by men. Makes me so angry. A young woman also sexually attacked in a women's only ward here also. So when you are at your most vulnerable in hospital not even safe.