Irish public consultation on gender recognition act

[NotAWhacktivist]

Consultation Process

Submissions are now invited, from interested individuals and organisations, on the current operation of the Gender Recognition Act 2015 and in relation to possible future operational and policy considerations. Reflecting the terms of reference of the review group, those wishing to make a submission should do so under the following headings:

Arrangements for children aged 16 to 17 years;
Arrangements for children aged under 16 years;
Arrangements for persons who identify as neither male nor female (e.g. non-binary);
Arrangements for intersex people;
Any other relevant issues, including issues relating to the operation of the current legislative provisions.

For more information
www.welfare.ie/en/pressoffice/Pages/pr080118.aspx

The Gender Recognition Act can be read here www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/25/enacted/en/html

Interesting that a gender recognition certificate can be revoked.

Ah so no scope for consideration of the impacts of any of the aspects of the GRA on others, like women who stand to have their rights steamrollered over? Funny that.

Hi @Working that is what I thought initially, but if you read the stuff again it talks about the "current operation" of the act, so I think that leaves more scope for comment. I am going to comment anyway.

I have some questions which I am going to put to the minister, but unfortunately there is probably not enough time left for the consultation for me to get an answer before submitting a comment.

Someone said on another thread that apparently males can't identify into prisons here. I can't see anything in the act to say this, but maybe there is some other law about this.

It is interesting as well that a gender identity (I can't remember if this is the correct wording) can be refused but also revoked, so this might allow for exclusions if the person has committed a sex crime (the act does not mention any specific grounds for exclusion, it is left vague. This could be a good or a bad thing, though I wish they would speciifically mention sex criminal as exclusionary)

This is interesting (from a pro-trans group). There were going to be exceptions for sports but they got dropped.

On June 2014, the Minister for Social Protection published the revised General Scheme of the Gender Recognition Bill following Cabinet approval. The revised scheme included several significant changes to the proposed Bill, including the removal of a sports clause (which would have severely hindered trans people’s participation in sports) and provided a pathway for legal recognition for 16 and 17 years olds www.teni.ie/page.aspx?contentid=586

I've emailed the minister responsible a few questions regarding prisons, conflict between sex-based and gender ID rights, and whether a gender recognition certificate would be revoked if someone committed a sex-crime.

Ahh a trans advocate is chairing this review, surely a civil servant would have been a better choice?

Minister Doherty appointed a Review Group chaired by Moninne Griffith (Executive Director, BeLonG To) which includes representation from the Transgender Equality Network of Ireland (TENI), other independent experts in the field and Government bodies with an interest in this area.

This is from the front page of Belong's website:
Recent Irish polling shows that although attitudes are changing and public support for transgender people is increasing, there is still much work to be done to eliminate stigma, myths and misconceptions. IndividualiTy and BeLonG To hope that this campaign will address many of these.

53% of people agree that trans young people should be able to wear the uniform of their preferred gender in school.
62% of people agree that transgender young people should be able to use their preferred name and pronoun in school.
<strong>Only 41% of people agree trans young people should be able to use the rest room/ changing facilities of their preferred gender in school.</strong> <a class="break-all" href="http://belongto.org/pro/page.aspx?contentid=14637" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">belongto.org/pro/page.aspx?contentid=14637</a>

It is also full of non-binary bullshit.

Sorry for all the messages in this. I am working on a submission (which is probably a waste of time as the committee might be rigged) and I came across this from a transgender group (this page is full of the usual "most oppressed of all" sort of whining, and claims without facts to back them up, but I digress...)

In June 2014, the Minister for Social Protection published the revised General Scheme of the Gender Recognition Bill following Cabinet approval. The revised scheme included several significant changes to the proposed Bill, including the removal of a sports clause (which would have severely hindered trans people’s participation in sports
www.teni.ie/page.aspx?contentid=586

It is very disappointing if the translobby managed to remove exemptions for sports.

How can we lodge comments / concerns. I'm up for it but not in the least bit articulate so could do with some guidance on how to word it appropriately.

Hi @laztbabyirl there is more information here
www.welfare.ie/en/pressoffice/Pages/pr080118.aspx

This is the key information (it looks like they might publish names and addresses, I am going to ask for my address to be withheld as I don't want the whactivists to know where I live. They might just mean that in relation to groups, which would be different):

Consultation Process

Submissions are now invited, from interested individuals and organisations, on the current operation of the Gender Recognition Act 2015 and in relation to possible future operational and policy considerations. Reflecting the terms of reference of the review group, those wishing to make a submission should do so under the following headings:

Arrangements for children aged 16 to 17 years;
Arrangements for children aged under 16 years;
Arrangements for persons who identify as neither male nor female (e.g. non-binary);
Arrangements for intersex people;
Any other relevant issues, including issues relating to the operation of the current legislative provisions.

How to make a submission

Submissions may be made via email to: [email protected] (with the word "Submission" in the Subject line), or by post to: GRA2015 Review (Submission), GRO Policy Unit, Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection, Floor 1, Áras Mhic Dhiarmada, Store Street, Dublin 1, D01 WY03.

Submissions should be returned not later than 5 February 2018 and should include the full name and address of the person making the submission and, where relevant, the name of the body or organisation represented.

All submissions will be acknowledged and will be considered by the Review Group. The group will report to the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection on the consultation process. Those who make submissions may be invited to meet with representatives of the Review Group.

It should be noted that submissions received, and reports of any further consultations undertaken with any parties in response to this request, will be subject to Freedom of Information legislation and may be published on the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection website.

I am mostly making comments under this heading (and I am taking a very liberal view of what they mean...Well if a man can be a woman...)

Thanks for sharing this - I will also be commenting based on what I have learnt on the Feminism board here.

That is great Minerva, someone posted about it on another thread and I thought it best to start another post. There are only a few days left to comment, but I think any critical comments at all would be good.

Thanks so much for posting this. I would love to comment critically, but honestly, the FoI implications worry me as in my area of work it could cause me problems if my name got out as a critic. I'll have to think about it more.

Hi Mulhuddart Initially I thought they were going to publish everything on their website, but it looks like not necessarily (in fact I can pretty much guarantee they won't put mine up there as they won't want the arguments out there) but still they would be subject to FOI, which is a bit worrying. It is personal safety I am particularly concerned about, if the whacktivists got my address.

I only do voluntary work (which I won't be kicked out off as there is no one to replace me).

Having said that I don't think there is the same aggression here for now, but anyone from anywhere could probably could put in a FOI (or they could get someone from here to do it).

But I think the conclusions of this report are a foregone conclusion, more than likely, though sending in critical comments might make them slightly more restrained in whatever the government does. If they get what they want there is a good chance no one will bother to do FOI's.

I've sent mine in. It is not the best written submission but will be better than nothing. At least they cannot say that they got no submission that were concerned about women's rights

These are some of the submmissions which were sent it. Looking forward to reading them

www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Review-of-the-Gender-Recognition-Act-2015.aspx

Depressing and very biased. It's nearly all submissions by LGBT organisations who are going to support it. I can't believe the Irish public are in favour of this. the report by the mental health charity saying many teenagers explore gender and sexuality and often change their minds is sensible.
If it's brought in by the back door there will be a backlash when the consequences of self ID start to appear. Really surprised the Irish are going for that. Didn't see a submission from the RC church but not read all of them, just most.

Unfortunately self-id is already law here, but it was sneaked in a few years ago and I think most people have no idea about it (I heard about it here).

They are now considering extending it to under 16's and introducing a non-binary option. The government consultation is being chaired by a transactivist! There are 4 transactivists on the review panel, and no one from a gender critical perspective.

This "public" consultation was not widely publicised (I heard about it here) and only lasted a few weeks. I haven't read the submissions yet. Great that a charity made some sensible points.

I am thinking of contacting the church about this (I am an atheist but needs must) and possibly some other groups, if I can figure out who to contact. Unfortunately the National Council of Women in Ireland have a transactivist on the board (the same one who is head the review of the gender recognition act), so I don't expect to get anywhere there.

I think this is going to get worse as Senator Fintan Warfield is introducting a bill banning gender identity "conversion therapy" i.e. professionals will be forced to affirm whatever the person is saying about their sex/gender. This will probably lead to a sky-rocketing of cases (along with some other transgender stuff being promoted here).