No more #nodebate

[DailyWTFMoments]

If you told me a week ago that Andrew Marr would ask Senior political figures "is a trans woman a woman?" on his show this morning, I'd have scoffed.

The #nodebate mantra has been well and truly blown out of the water - a consequence of LM abusing her position - but, more importantly, that acted as a catalyst, and the result is that women everywhere, including here on MN, are refusing to be silenced, and are willing to step forward and tell their story to the world.

Thank you to all those women

TallulahWaitingInTheRain Mon 29-Jan-18 10:16:21
It's not complicated really: to benefit from protections designed for female people you (should) have to be female. Being female should not mean that you are constrained to make use of those protections, but not being female should mean you cannot appropriate them.

Similarly, if protections existed that were specifically designed for male people (e.g., limiting a prostate cancer survivors' group to male attendees / facilitator or whatever) the same should apply.

That was the situation before the Tories broke the Equality Act by insisting trans women are treated as biological women.

I think thats the change that needs to be challenged in court. They should have to prove in court that trans women are actual biological women to be able to make that change.

since most of the referrals for dysmorphia are female, if self-ID does come in, that looks set to change.

I have a really, really horrible feeling that the next major job for women and lesbians in particular will be to help a very traumatised generation of detransitioning young women who were uncertain of their gender identity as children rather than transsexual, to live as gender non conforming women and deal with the aftermath on their bodies of hormones, surgery and infertility, and to seek help and support for their additional needs such as Autism and mental health, not to mention issues such as chronic pain and brittle bones that are common side effects of some of the drugs being given despite never having been tested for children.

Plus answer questions like 'you were the grown ups, how the hell did you let this happen', and help seek compensation from the establishment.

I have a really, really horrible feeling that the next major job for women and lesbians in particular will be to help a very traumatised generation of detransitioning young women

Yes

what is the legal situation with men's teams? Are people who are legally women automatically barred from joining a men's team even if they're able to compete at the same level? Does anyone happen to know?

It depends on the sport. In many contact sports, boys and girls are not allowed to play against each other from a relatively early age (12/13, for eg). Because of that pesky male puberty giving boys a significant advantage over girls, and the potential to seriously harm them. Non-contact sports like tag rugby can be played as mixed teams for longer

I posted this link on another thread, but I think it's relevant here too. And I really don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I think there are questions to be asked about where TRA groups receive their funding, whether there are any vested interests there and whether they really have the best interests of young people in mind.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4979498/James-Caspian-attacked-transgender-children-comments.html#ampshare=www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4979498/James-Caspian-attacked-transgender-children-comments.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4979498/James-Caspian-attacked-transgender-children-comments.html#ampshare=www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4979498/James-Caspian-attacked-transgender-children-comments.html

(Worth reading if only because it gives an all-too-brief voice to those who have detransitioned)

OP "If you told me a week ago that Andrew Marr would ask Senior political figures "is a trans woman a woman?" on his show this morning, I'd have scoffed. "

I think of this the other way round - I can't believe it's reached a stage where people actually sit around discussing what a woman is.

I think of this the other way round - I can't believe it's reached a stage where people actually sit around discussing what a woman is.

IKR? I'd really like this particular episode of the Twilight Zone to be over soon, please.

I wasn't convinced Corbyn understood what's meant by self-id when he described it as involving 'a process ... with trauma'

Yes, I did think this was a possibility. There is no process involved with self-ID. Surely the clue is in the name? A male self-IDing as a woman is simply them...saying they are women. No process involved. Its not about transsexual people who take hormones and attempt to resemble the sex they wish to be. There is no process at all, for self-ID

8IKR? I'd really like this particular episode of the Twilight Zone to be over soon, please.

Feels like it could be a Black Mirror episode to me.

I doubt Charlie would touch it, but it would make the best Black Mirror episode.