The Danish Girl

[whenohwhen]

Currently watching the Eddie Redmayne film The Danish Girl and am struggling with my feelings regarding transgender issues with reference to this particular film.
As a Feminist I felt I had pretty clear lines drawn regarding my own views on trans women.

Fwiw in a nutshell, I thought each to their own, live and let live. I, of course, had issue with the abuse of the system with reference to some male "self identification" as women to access vulnerable females. I also was horrified by young children undergoing gender reassignment treatment. I thought that children should be allowed to develop and mature before they were allowed to make such a decision.

Now, watching this film I'm not sure. I think I feel uncomfortable with transgender as a concept. I'd not really recognised it in myself before and it It feels exclusionary and uncomfortable. I don't like myself for it. But this story seems to have allowed me to recognise it.

As a woman I don't feel differently to a man on an intellectual, spiritual or any other plane. I just don't. I feel that if I wanted to marry a woman and wear traditionally male clothes and call myself Sam, I would and I could. I believe I am as worthy of power and money as every man and will assert that belief as necessary.
I also believe that men have the right to be vulnerable and feminine as men. I believe they should and could fulfil traditional female roles and have traditionally female sensibilities if that is their choice as men.

I don't think any person should feel uncomfortable enough in their own skin and genitalia to surgically change it. I think as a society we should support every single person to learn to view themselves as perfect just as they are, how they were created. Be that in a dress or a suit, they are accepted.

I must be missing something. But I just can't see why any person should feel so unworthy as they are that they would want to change something so fundamental about themselves. I get it in the period that this film was set, I keep thinking "thank goodness people wouldn't need to do that anymore", but they do.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking

Lots of bisexual women here.

Do you see the inherent problem with deciding a person's sexual orientation should be based around gender rather than their sex?

Dear lord.

Aren't you allergic to that straw?

BUT oddly (not) that doesn't translate into feeling all trans are inherently narc bastards.

Of the 87% of trans people who have comorbid conditions with gender dysphoria, narcissism is the most prevalent.

Autogynephilia is characterised by narcissistic rage.

Narc bastards?

I'm not bi. I'm straight. I'm not speaking to others. I'm speaking for everyone including myself. It doesn't matter.

Sexual orientation, is by its nature transphobic. I should be equally happy having a relationship with transmen as I am men.

you think this stance will work?
How do you mean, 'work'?

Why did you ignore the point about lesbians being harassed? They are now under pressure to take partners with a penis.

Hi! Bisexual woman here. Doesn't mean that if DH decided to go get himself some breast implants I'd be guaranteed to be OK with that and still be attracted to him.

Another thing I felt during the the movie was empathy for trans people but it wasn’t I think how trans activists would like. It was because watching the film made me realise how many trans people are being told if they do this or that they’ll be a woman. They get this sort of vacuum around them confirming them as “woman”. It’s like the auditions for singing shows where the family has told the singer they are wonderful but in reality they can’t jold a tune. It’s left to the panel to crush thier dream. In an early seasons of Australia top model there was an overweight girl, who was short with a poor bleach job in tears because the model show was only intrested in looks.
That’s what watching the death scene was like. There is this man dressed up as a “Woman” but dying because no one could convince him he was just a man.

And there must be thousands of trans people out there with family and friend confirming yes yes your a woman but just round the corner is a “judge” that will shatter the illusion.

Christ alive...and you think this stance will work? Using 'widows' is an insult to actual widows...If your marriage doesn't work for what ever reason it doesn't work. Wearing a badge of martyrdom is self indulgent. Go talk to the DV victims

Yeah, you didn't read the thread. No one in their right mind could read that thread and have that reaction.

Golf widows is an insult to widows

I don't understand how trans widows is

I couldn't get past five minutes....

It's still on the sky box and I keep scowling at it when I scroll past

Using 'widows' is an insult to actual widows...If your marriage doesn't work for what ever reason it doesn't work. Wearing a badge of martyrdom is self indulgent. Go talk to the DV victims

If you bothered to read the thread, many of those women arguably are the victims of domestic abuse. There are repeated comments and incidences which would be classed as emotional abuse.

After reading comments here, I think I will simply give this film a miss. I doubt I could cope with it.

Redtoothbrush is ummed and arrhed about it. Then thought watching it might help me better understand transgender people. Help me to see thier point of view maybe it will soften my thoughts. It did the opposite. Even while watching it I tried very hard to see it through I gentle lens.

That said the costumes and interior shots are great. Makes me want to go to Denmark. I liked the female lead and also Lily’s old friend.

Cisters, I do the same. And every time DH sees it he goes "oh you'll like that..."

Though now reading the thread, I have a sort of self-destructive curiosity....

If "trans widows" is insulting to widows, is "dead naming" also an insulting term?

How come TRAs can use a term which alludes quite clearly to "transition" as dying then rebirth, but the partner of such a person cannot refer to themselves as the widow of the first "dead" incarnation?

If they can appropriate "dead", why can't we appropriate "widow"? Wouldn't that actually be logical?

We are only tying knots in the string they throw at us.

I don't know why I bother clicking on the feminist threads, they just make me cross. Every. Single. Fucking. Time.

Yeah, feminists should really stop being so damn feminist.

And you never hear why!

I've never understood people who go to the effort of criticising a thread, and then don't say why.

Probably because he/she disagrees but can't think of any logical reason why.

For those on the fence about watching the film, I will say this. Although it was frustrating to once again sit through another story of men telling other men what women are and how to become them, as a pp said, I did find myself wondering whether the director was inadvertently or deliberately showcasing the narcissism and AGP and self obsession. But it's definitely there to see. You might even find yourself watching Redmayne and thinking 'seriously dude, literally no woman ever has coyly minced and simpered as outrageously as this. Are you taking the piss?'
The more he tried to be 'feminine', the more he came off as a cartoon. I suspect he genuinely thought he was acting womanny and pulling it off though.

If the film was trying to evoke sympathy I think it backfires with a certain sector for sure.

barrack

I dont know if thats what the author intended but i found lily to be a very unlikable character in the book

To the tool who was mouthing off about using "transwidows", and that being offensive:

Another of the trans widows waving here....

I DO think of myself as a widow, the person I fell for is gone. He has been replaced by a porn addicted, vile narcissistic who gets off on dressing up as me.

But I imagine you will disregard my voice and experiences as they don't fit your fantasy. That's a wee bit narcissistic in itself isn't it? Imagining your point of view to be correct despite other folks evidence.

In fact, I sodding well identify as a widow, and surely in this age of identity politics and feels over facts, that makes YOU the bigot. He's not biologically dead, but biology doesn't matter, does it?

I saw the film when it was released at cinemas and I was quite sympathetic
However, at the time I felt the most realistic moment Lili had was when being chased by men and whacking them

Now I'm afraid the transgender problem has made me less sympathetic to transsexuals.

I've never understood people who go to the effort of criticising a thread, and then don't say why

Yes!

A bit like when people pile on a thread and say "Wow so much transphobia", then are asked by 40 posters "where is transphobia in the thread?". Then replies stem from "educate yourself" to "such bigots" or my personal favourite "you lot are supposed to be mothers".

There's definitely a link between exhibiting OTT outrage and being unable to logically explain that outrage .

In fact, I sodding well identify as a widow, and surely in this age of identity politics and feels over facts, that makes YOU the bigot. He's not biologically dead, but biology doesn't matter, does it?

You made me snort out loud on the train. Best answer ever. 👏