Vegan Feminism

[cista]

I'm hoping we can have a reasoned discussion about this.

I've been vegetarian since I was 11, much longer than I've been a feminist. I became a feminist when I went to university at 18. I became vegan at around 22, after learning more about the reality of the dairy industry. I never really saw the connection between the two areas until a bit later, but now it seems obvious. The majority of animals in the dairy industry are female. They are literall abused because they are female.

I realize that not everyone has the same compassion and concern for animals as I do, and that is fine. However, I would like to hear what other feminists think about this. All opinions/ questions welcome!

I think it might actually be the most batshit fact I know.

gobsmacked, forsooth!

cista.

Our beef meat is primarily the male animals. They are reared, fed up, sold at the yearling auction, fed up some more and then slaughtered young and turned into roast.

Please be assured that animal husbandry is not a feminist issue. The animals are equal opportunities treated like future food.

How did you come up with your name?

The cows produce the milk, and they just happen to be female.

Males would be exploited in the same way if they produced milk

I'm vegan and a feminist. I've never connected the two. I enjoy discussing feminism; it gives rise to interesting exchanges. Beyond swapping recipes I don't discuss veganism; it tends to bring out the tedious proselytiser in people, vegan and non-vegan alike.

Fascinating post BahHumbygge I remember reading years ago about the change to an agricultural way of life and how it meant populations settled. I had never thought about the link to patriarchy and hierarchies before! Though I daresay men even in nomadic tribes had ways of shutting women out of power and decision-making.

I really don't see the connection. You're massively over thinking it.

I realize that not everyone has the same compassion and concern for animals as I do, and that is fine.

LOL

I think you are overthinking this.

I believe that speciesism and sexism are linked in some way, that they rely on the same impulses.

Bringbackfonzi I suppose speciesism and sexism are both about 'othering' a different category of being and using that to justify according them less consideration and fewer/no rights.

Peter Singer on speciesism was groundbreaking.

1. I am insulted at being compared to a cow.
2. Clearly you haven't thought this through. Cows don't produce milk on their own. They must first give birth to a calf (50% of which are male and will more or less automatically go to slaughter unless they have the misfortune to be born in India in which case there is a likelihood that they will be tied to a post outside agremple where they will be permitted to die of dehydration).
3. The dairy industry is an animals rights issue. It's not a feminist issue because it doesn't concern women. Cows are not women.

PracticallyTerfectInEveryWay Yes, that's basically what I mean, I think. Patriarchy as we know it involves the subjugation of different categories of people/creatures. I don't think the link between animal rights and feminism is about the abuse of female animals in particular, it's about the oppression of 'second-rate' beings.

The difference being that women are fully human and other species are not. Comparing women’s rights to animal rights is extremely insulting.

My feminism and veganism are definitely intertwined. My religious/spiritual belief to cause no harm also play into this, as does a lot of science and academic thinking too, so not just some wishy washy hippy shit btw.

If one to of the cornerstones of my feminism is equality (to a fair start in life, to freedom from violence) I see no problem in extending that to animals. I don't see it as an insult to join the two isms, but I also don't think its conflating women's right to animal rights. I'm not saying women are cows but that the world could do with less violence.

I also think food is a feminist issue. Women do the bulk of the cooking, grocery shopping, feeding children etc. Also the history of control over women's bodies has been centred around food. The ginormous dieting industry tells us this.

There is some white western privilege with this I acknowledge. Even though I'm not particularly affluent, I have access to good, unprocessed food and I want that for all women. Its not a perfect ideology, but like a lot of vegan's say, its about doing the best you can.

Most feminists I know are vegan or vegetarian

I suppose both come from having an ethical viewpoint on issues

I eat meat as a low iron and low calcium diet is unhealthy and causes lots of health problems for western women. I know you can have a healthy veggie diet but I know I wouldn’t and others would be the same.

I'm in several vegan groups. I think the female:male ratio is about 8:1, so these groups, while not women only, are very women dominated.
I think that's interesting in itself.
Anyhow, most are imo reasonable, but there are some that have the opinion that you can't be feminist unless you're vegan. Someone wrote that only yesterday in a group.
And some have the opinion that farm animals are forcibly raped.
Someone asked an interesting question recently which was in a burning house, would you save a child or your pet, if you could only save one.
A depressing number of them said pet, no question. They had no connection to the child, and animals and humans are equal. These were young women in their 20s (the most common age group for vegans. In fact it was men on the whole who were arguing that allowing a child to die in favour of a pet was barbaric).
Vegans can have a lot of compassion, but some of them can be a little crazy.

I'm a long-term vegetarian, borderline vegan. I think it's an interesting question, but to be honest the meat, dairy and egg industries are brutal full stop. Male chicks and male calves are killed shortly after birth. Cows must suffer terribly from having to carry that amount of milk in their udders all day but I think the cruelty is considered acceptable because they're animals, not because they're female. A lot of people think that the suffering of animals just doesn't matter.

Incidentally, in answer to an earlier poster, I rarely consume soy, quinoa, tofu or almond milk. It's perfectly possible to be vegan on a diet of fruit, vegetables and grains. And in any case, the vast majority of soy grown in the world goes to feed animals being raised for slaughter.

hackmum, quinoa is a grain - why wouldn't you want to eat it?

I was vegetarian from when I was 9, then went back to eating meat during pregnancy.
I didn't particularly enjoy it, but got in the habit and it was hard to imagine budgeting for vegetarian meals etc.
However, I was really into Mary Daly when these boards were young - 2011ish - and eventually found this caroljadams.com/spom-the-book/ which is inspired by that line of thinking.
I'm not vegan but do try to cook vegan where possible.
I've been vegetarian for 5 years and have felt it does connect to the way I think about women's rights - not really on behalf of animals but more what eating meat means for us as humans, and the way it's coded as a masculine act.
I think there's a link between objectification of animals and of women, but I agree they're different things with different consequences.

radicalhubarchives.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/feminism-and-vegetarianism/ This is interesting.

I don't think anyone should feel compelled to turn veggie, and Lierre Keith is right to point out that women have a right to health and good nutrition.

I also think that some indigenous diets are high in meat, and sustainable in that environment. But I'm from Scotland and I don't feel that was ever really the case for us.

The most anaemic I've ever been was when I was eating meat. I'm not sure if the early veggie diet left me unable to properly absorb nutrition from meat though.

The difference being that women are fully human and other species are not. Comparing women’s rights to animal rights is extremely insulting.

That's speciesism in a nutshell.

Read Peter Singer's Animal Liberation. Beings' right to ethical treatment is based on their capacity to suffer, not their intellect, although I think many animals' intellect is underappreciated purely because their skills are not human skills.

Singer doesn't claim every animal deserves equal rights to humans but does discuss the overlap between sentient or highly intelligent (by human standards) animals and humans. But capacity to suffer is the thing to consider. He is (or was last time I read) a vegan.

Actually, if I were a MRA I could make a good case for modern farming being a massacre of male animals.........

I should make it clear I don't think animal rights are a feminist issue. They are different but equally valid issues.I was just pointing out the role of 'othering' in both cases.

Oh God Bertrand, don't give them ideas... But no, they're not interested in gaslighting cows for a power trip.

Grains only contain half the amino acids the human body needs. You need to balance them by adding pulses, legumes, and seeds.

Quinoa is unusual as it is a complete protein, and is a type of seed. It is a hardy plant and does not need to be irrigated like soy does.
You can grow it under glass/polytunnel in the UK.