When women in sport report sexual abuse....

[QuentinSummers]

Larry Nassar case - I am horrified. Women reported his "treatment technique" involved his fingers in their vaginas - they were disbelieve and told they were confused about medical techniques vs abuse. Leaving him free to abuse hundreds of females.
www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/01/larry-nassar-and-the-impulse-to-doubt-female-pain/551198/

Yet this has really not been reported as I would expect for this kind of crime.

It sickens me that we have these recurrent cases of men having jobs specifically to abuse large numbers of women and girls, yet it's all hushed up and we can't talk about it, NAMALT.

At least the female judge on the case isn't taking that shit. She is a total shero
mobile.twitter.com/ellievhall/status/956222097612791809

I've been following this case for some time now - so many brave women speaking out, like Simone Biles, and the judge was fabulous.

But yes, horrific that victims' stories were disbelieved. I think there are a number of issues at play here, the major one of course being a misogynistic culture which doesn't take women's testimony seriously, and patriarchal medical practices ("doctor knows best"). Coupled with this is the fact that his victims were mostly very young - teenage girls. And also a medical culture in the USA which has far more routine vaginal examinations, making it harder to say "but this one was wrong" (as far as I can tell, it's routine to start smears round about age 18, 20, even if a woman is not yet sexually active - a friend of mine was left utterly traumatised by this, and also to perform many more internal exams during pregnancy - I think, for instance, an internal exam would be considered routine at a 12 week booking-in visit, which was a real WTAF moment for me. I think I had one in total at 41 weeks - when the midwife very quickly had a feel, said "cervix completely closed, not a hope in hell of getting a sweep", and we went straight to CS.)

I know this isn't AIBU, but YANBU.
NAMALT covers a multitude of sins, and I despair when it comes so often from women.

It's horrific. Poor girls. And sadly seems a bit of a common MO for sports coaches. It makes me nervous for my sporty children.
I do love the judge though. Giving them all a chance to tell their stories. I wish our courts would do similar.

The judge during the sentencing has been amazing. She should be person of the year for 2018.

She has let victims speak and put that man where he belongs. His letter was a disgrace and she called him on it.

Yes, the judge has been wonderful. Those poor girls and women, being brushed off when they talk about their assault. People are trained to dismiss women and girls, society gaslights them all the time. Don't make a fuss etc. We are in trouble if we report and it is our fault if we don't report. I am sick of it, our whole society is built on not trusting women and it doesn't look like things are going to get better anytime soon.

This case is utterly horrific. The women’s testimonies were incredible, so many amazing women.

The judge was amazing giving the women their voice in court.

I wept at the one where the woman talked about being 14/15 and her mum was in the room but at the head of the treatment table and faced away from her when Nassar assaulted her. She knew she was being violated but didn’t think she could speak up because she was ‘lucky’ being treated by such a well regarded doctor.

He is utterly fucking evil, so much getting off on his position of power it actually made me sick to my stomach. So much misogyny

When I think of my little girl and all the safeguarding i do of her, all the things I tell her, your private parts are yours and no one has any right to see them or touch them etc etc, but in the face of this, my daughter might still not be safe... he assaulted young girls while their mother was in the same fucking room.

He can rot...

My cousin's cousin 'Jane', who I count as a friend, was one of those brave women who spoke in court (but wished to retain her anonymity, so the cameras didn't record her). I'm so proud to be able to say I'm one of her friends.

As with many of Nassar's victims, after the Indy Star first broke the story, Jane was in denial at first. She had been manipulated to believe it was treatment. It took several months for her to come to terms with the fact she had been abused. Nassar did such a good job on these girls and young women, that Jane knows some fellow gymnasts who received 'the treatment', yet still believe Nassar has done nothing wrong.

Aside from the horrific abuse, one of the things I find most disappointing about the Nassar case, is it took the Olympic gymnasts like Aly Raisman and Simone Biles coming forward, for most of the media (and public) to start giving a damn. The incredible Rachael Denhollander, whose bravery it was that started this whole tidal wave (as the judge called it), first did so back in 2016. Yet it was only really the Indy Star, and the local media in Michigan, that were reporting it for at least a year. It seems women's voices only begin to matter, when famous women speak out, and that shouldn't be the case. Yes it's a good thing the case ended up receiving wider media attention, but it's a shame it hadn't done so since the beginning.

Following on from that comment about the media, a 'The New Yorker' writer wrote a piece yesterday, praising Aly Raisman for leading this charge. I sent a very strongly worded e-mail, reminding them it was Rachael Denhollander who led this charge.

Denhollander was the last to present her statement before sentencing yesterday. Her speech was one of the most powerful I have ever seen. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend watching it, when you have 40 spare minutes.

Nassar's sentencing should only be the beginning though. People like Rachael, and Jane, and all those whose assaults took place at Michigan State University, will not rest until the relevant people there are held accountable.

Yesterday was a huge step, but there is still a long way to go, until there is full justice.

I have so much respect and admiration for the girls who stood up and spoke. Given the whole Hollywood metoo campaign these gymnasts demonstrated such courage in speaking out.

The judge also set the tone that his actions were deplorable. While judgement has already been passed I thought her question regarding his plea of guilty was a vital question to ask as it sums up his attitude and it closes the door to any chance of an appeal. He knows full well he is guilty and there is no chance of rehabilitation. That's why he got a 100+ year sentence. Listening to the lives he has ruined he should be thankful he is allowed to live after taking away the lives of so many young girls.

There is now a backlash against the judge for not being impartial enough. Of course.
I'm starting to think I need a break from social media, the way the world treats women is massively upsetting me at the moment.
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/the-big-idea/2018/1/25/16932656/judge-aquilina-larry-nassar-line-between-judge-advocate-sentencing

I presume the sentence can be appealed, if the judge was not impartial enough. That's why there is an appeals process, because judges are human beings and may get things wrong.

The media backlash against Judge Aquilina is just plain old misogyny, though.

I doubt they would bother appealing given he is already serving 60 years for possession of images of child abuse.

The Americans do generally seem much harder in their sentencing than the UK which is good

The reason she asked him if he wanted to change is plea was to shut down his chance of appeal and parole.

The way it works here is you have the court decide if you are guilty or not. The judge has to be impartial for that. Then you have sentencing which can only happen once you are found guilty. It's at sentencing that victims make their impact statements, which they did in their hundreds.

Bernie Madoff got 150 years because he ruined lives. What this guy did is absolutely horrific from the actual crime committed through to the multiple attempts to cover it up. The whole of the Olympic team have been abused and have had to use their celebrity to get this guy removed from society. The judge got it right and is forcing the gymnastics association to change.

Yes my understanding is because there was no question of guilt she no longer needed to be impartial. Victim impact was a part of the sentencing process not determining guilt.

Isn't it like here when a judge explains the sentence and talks about the despicable acts etc at sentencing, frequently nothing impartial about the judges comments at this point. This stood out
because there were so many young women reading their statements.

The reason she asked him if he wanted to change is plea was to shut down his chance of appeal and parole.

Ah ok, so he lost his right to appeal as part of the plea bargain. We do not have a plea bargain system in England. It is very different from the US in that regard.

It's an utterly horrific case

The judge is wonderful

pilar Basically he can always appeal if there is evidence that his trial to find him guilty is considered unfair. He plead guilty so trial was relatively quick. The guy was trying to open up the opportunity to appeal and the judge saw right through it and called him on it.

The US Olympic committee has given the USA gymnastics board six days to resign or their status as the sports national governing body will be terminated. They are requiring that none of those terminated with the exception of the five athlete reps are allowed to serve as interim members.

It looks like those victim impact statements had an effect.

Basically he can always appeal if there is evidence that his trial to find him guilty is considered unfair.

As I understand it, he plead guilty and there was no trial.

I was talking theoretically about appealing the sentence itself. Then I read elsewhere that part of the plea bargain includes giving up his right to appeal the sentence.

Hadley Freeman has a very good article about the sustained gaslighting of girls, the 'ethos' of competitive gymnastics where girls 'doubt their own feelings', let alone the complicity of adults in covering it up.
www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/jan/26/larry-nassar-abuse-gymnasts-scandal-culture

Half way through the Hadley Freeman article, and I've paused to do a bit of a brain dump/ask a question.

DS has always been very athletic and totally bouncy (think Tigger on speed), so I've spent a lot of time from when he was tiny finding active stuff to wear him out. When he was 2 I used to take him to a toddler gym club at the local (very successful) gymnastics club. Age 3 when it came time for him to move up a class, the next class up parents were not welcome - you were not allowed to stay, even to sit quietly at the side of the room. DS was really unhappy with this (no suggestion of anything untoward, just a natural 3 year old who didn't want to be left alone), so we quit the gym club.

But it strikes me that this sort of environment where children are expected to be left without parental supervision from a very early age is precisely the sort of environment where abuse can thrive (incidentally I am not saying this happened at the gym club DS went to - I had nothing to set my spidey senses off, nor have I heard any rumours - and it's a small town!)

So - is it normal? DS, now much older, now plays rugby and football, and parents are often around, particularly with rugby.

There's a balance to be had I think. Any sports coach excluding parents needs to ensure that all their safeguarding procedures are first class - always multiple adults, everything in plain sight, supervision in changing rooms and toilets, rigorous risk assessments etc - everything so open and above board that children and parents feel confident.
Personally I'd always have open access for parents where under 5s are involved - and probably older (with strict instructions about non intervention to keep the 'over involved' under control)

My dd does a lot of dance, not a sport obviously, but a similar physical training aspect. Parents are not allowed to stay in the room because some children could be distracted and pay attention to the parents rather than the teacher.

For the little ones, though, there is always more than one adult in the room. They are well supervised imo.

I go to 2 local gym clubs and neither of them expect parents to leave. Both have viewing areas for parents.

I have taken a bit of exception to this:
“There is no other sport in which this could have happened but gymnastics,”

Patently not true. There have been similar scandals in football and swimming (off the top of my head).
The problem is people including parents naively giving sports coaches/doctors/talent scouts the benefit of the doubt and free access to children.

The whole point of the article in the OP is that the girls were dismissed when they complained - this is a feature of serial sex offenders against children.

My husband thinks I am overly paranoid because I won't let my kids go on scout camps and I am paranoid about sports too. But this stuff is too common for me to take a risk.

And yes Hairy. As schools tightened up about safeguarding in the 1980s, and those seeking to harm children were kicked out of schools, some of them started setting up sports clubs in order to access children. And music lessons, swimming and private tutoring were also places where paedophiles headed.
There have been a lot of changes and there is now guidance for parents about music and tutoring and sports clubs are more monitored, especially when they use public buildings. But none of this picks up the 'under the radar' adults who just shouldn't be working with children and young people.

the girls were dismissed when they complained

It's not only a feature of serial sex offenders against children. Adult women are also disbelieved. Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, John Worboys ...

Quentin
I think there's a balance between vigilance and paranoia - and we are right to be vigilant.
I read the comment about gymnastics slightly differently in that I thought it referred to him using the nature of gymnastics as exercise to "justify' what he was going. But I may be wrong.
I do know that sport has a lot to answer for for too often creating cultures where children's views were often not respected, they weren't listened to and they were and still are often bullied by adults with limited emotional maturity.