Why do some women still harp on about male victims of domestic violence?

[AnnaKissedFemm]

I deliver DV training and time and time again we get women questioning the clear and stark statistics we present, pointing out that men can be victims as well and it's so hard for men to talk about it and it's even harder for men and all the stats must be wrong because of under-reporting and blah blah blah. Unwilling to accept the facts.

I know there are male victims, I get it. But they are much less likely to experience high risk, violent, sustained violence. And they are much less likely to get killed by a partner or ex-partner.

Why is this? It's so depressing.

I can't get too het up about this tbh. Noone should have to experience DV. Are your training materials discussing women exclusively? If so, is there a good reason for that or should male victims be given a mention?

I think it's coming from a good place. In an equal society we're expected to not forget the exceptions. To say actually what about DH being the stay at home parent and I'll go and be a rocket scientist. To talk about firefighters not firemen was a huge feminist Thing when I was a kid. If someone gave a talk about firefighting and said men and he all the time, I'd be what-about-ing too. Wouldn't you? It's just that.
Vicxy, you can head that one off too. If you don't have any actual figures on under-reporting just say "we think the male figure may be slightly underreported but as you can see, even if the true figure is twice as large this is predominantly a female issue".

anna you might like this (if you haven't seen it already)
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/victimfocus.wordpress.com/2018/01/03/stop-asking-me-what-about-men/amp/

It is true that the only people men kill more often than women is other men, but in DV this is not the case.
Still, male violence is the greatest human rights crisis the world has ever known.

I think it comes from women falling over themselves to demonstrate to men how "balanced" their thinking is, and reassure them that they are not stroppy, difficult, hysterical feminist man-haters.

I come from a similar background and agree wholeheartedly with OP! Almost all women who are murdered are murdered by their partner or ex partner. For men the figure is more like 2%. FFS!!! Cognitive Dissonance, I agree. Women are killed by men and men are killed by men!

Last time I saw the stats they were in the Guardian. They said men with the victims of DV in 40% of cases women in 60%.
The Guardian.
Next time I see a feminist telling a man he should stay away from any men's Rights groups and back feminism as they will solve men's problems too I will think about the posts in this thread.

Children yes, incidences of reported DV seem much more equitable when seen as a blunt statistic like that 40/60 much quoted figure but this figure needs to be broken down into levels of risk and harm. The question is, who is most at risk of fatal violence - women. Lots of abuse in DV is reported, lots goes unreported, but trying to work out the gender balance is pointless unless you are going to identify the difference in type of violence and level of harm.

It’s like, I used to do a job where I had to do a lot of risk assessments for courses, some of which used heavy machinery that could kill or maim a student, some of which used paper and low toxicity inks. If I had completed the risk assessment by highlighting only the likelihood of any type of accident in both situations I would have had a fairly equal figure, but that would be completely meaningless without taking into account the deadly nature of the equipment on one course (loss of limbs, eyes, potential fatality) and the risk of slight injury on the other one (paper cuts, slipping and falling, getting ink in eyes or mouth)

back feminism as they will solve men's problems too

You don’t often see feminists saying men’s problems are just as important to us, we combat them too.

What you see is feminists saying - the problem is male violence and toxic masculinity, join us in trying to combat this problem and you will probably see a reduction in men’s problems (as victims) too.

Two very different things.

Childrenofthestones

No, those are the logged reports. speak to any police officer and they will tell you that when men are accused of DV they commonly make an counter accusation.
Also, every time a woman fights back, thats recorded as a case of DV by her against her abuser.

kareningalasmith.com/2013/04/29/this-thing-about-male-victims/

Stats from the crime survey and further references;
www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/how-common-is-domestic-abuse/

I am sure the 40/60 stat also logs things such as 'nagging' as DV. I read on here once what consittuated DV for the purpose of that stat and that bit stuck in my mind as seriously ridiculous.

I sort of agree Op but i think youve phrased it in a way that is a bit insulting. DV against men is an important issue that is very serious but yes it is a separate issue to DV against women and should not be consistently brought up to derail conversations about violence against women.

Ive suffered domestic violence from a male partner that was quite extreme and my husband actually experienced domestic violence from a female ex (not just his word for it he actually has a non mol order on her and received counselling)
He himself agrees that whilst it was awful and made him seriously depressed and was very difficult to talk about and access help for... the main difference in our situations is that at no point was he in actual fear for his life. Even though on occassion she was violent towards him the impact of that on him was not as bad as the psychological aspect of it. Purely because he is twice the size of her so never felt physically threatened even when she hurt him.

In my case my abuser could very easily have killed me without even making much effort and that adds an extra layer of fear. There were many occassions when i actually thought he was going to kill me because he had his hands round my throat and i was blacking out.

Unfortuneatly I am not alone in my experiences and women are much more statistically likely to be killed by a male partner and experience quite horrific physical abuse.

Most times when people bring up domestic violence against men it is less because they care about men and more about trying to undermine campaigning for women. It does ring as 'well women can be shit too' It does ring as purely defensive and not productive to either women or men who are experiencing domestic violence.

But im sure there are also people who genuinely care about domestic violence against men and are genuinely campaigning for more awareness and support over that.
That is great but i do agree OP that it has no place in a discussion about male violence against women.

Most times when people bring up domestic violence against men it is less because they care about men and more about trying to undermine campaigning for women.

I think that is often the main reason for doing it. If the people bringing up the problem of DV against men really cared they wouldn't be bringing it up in that context but looking for ways to deal with it separately. Campaigners could certainly look for advice in how to go about it but they wouldn't be seeking to shift the focus.

Women and children as a group are vulnerable in ways that men as a group aren't. That is not to say that individual men aren't at risk but just that violence against women and children is a much bigger problem in society.

NAMALT, Not All Men Are Like That and
WABTM, What About The Men, as well as WDIT, Women Do It Too, are well known derailing techniques used by online trolls.
Even so I think it is important to examine why women do this to women and in groups. Some is repeating myths that have been repeated so often by media that it has become conventional wisdom.
I suspect that some of it is the way we deal with trauma by denial and trying to take some vestige of control by taking responsibility.
People are complicated, OP, and I am glad you can vent your frustrations here so you can better empathize with the victims of violence that you help through your teaching.

I haven't read the full thread,
But who is the OP training?

Just a point, if you are delivering training to professionals and exclude the possibility of Dv victims as men (treating it as bla bla bla) then the people you are instructing may overlook or minimise a potential risk when presented with one. You create the mindset that "it never happens to men" and that it doesn't need to be taken as seriously when it presents itself- well it does, and I speak from experience on this front.
Any training on domestic violence needs to cover all aspects- not with a view to minimise the crimes committed against women, not to create some whataboutery- but as a genuine safeguarding matter that needs covering, not just a representation of your own convictions op.

Statistics are of little use when someone ends up dead-
Safeguarding is about keeping an open mind- not choosing who can, can't be a victim.

I agree

You can barely talk about domestic violence these days without almost immediate "men suffer violence too!". Yes, we know they do but can we not have a conversation sans men?

Complete shut down of womens' voices. Diversion of topic to men men men as per usual. Neat way of ignoring that man on woman violence is more prevalent by far, and that male violence is the No.1 danger out there to both men and women, but due to physical strength of men and this shit, entitled, patriarchal society, women are far more so endangered.

Handmaidens and Mammys are complicit in championing men to ensure that men's issues are the first and main focus at all times. Pathetic echoes.

well I agree with you completely OP

I was in an abusive relationship though so I understand that it's apples and oranges. I had the children. I was smaller. He earned the money. If we were living in a world where women weren't left holding all the responsibility for the childcare, earning 2/3rds of what men earn and smaller than their aggressive partners who they have been socially conditioned to please, and also, socially conditioned to feel shame at being single and guilt at ''breaking up the family'' then and only then will I worry about the fact that it happens to men too.

Well I think if the OP is delivering training then it should cover the whole topic impartially- women and men.
When there's a serious case review following a male murder, what would you advise the course trainees to say?, "well that doesn't matter, it was just a bit of whataboutery".
Training is not the place to have attitudes like ops. As I said safeguarding should be about being able to deal with what presents itself, not whether the person fits into the neat little victim category box.
Furthermore I can't see how talking about Dv and including potential male victims would at all detract from the coverage of women.

Don’t think OP is coming back tbh