Momentum and misogyny

[Patodp]

Hello, I support Corbyn and joined the Labour Party in reaction to my support.
I have also donated to the "Keep women only Shortlists Female" fundraising page and have seen comments made in light of this, how Momentum are misogynistic.

I'd like to know how exactly please?(In my opinion they are a load of teenagers crying out for representation and are not out to hurt women)

Tbf, that description could apply to most politicians.

My local CLP's Momentum group are pretty bloody awful. We're in a marginal, and are in the throes of electing our next parliamentary candidate. Momentum were given the personal details of LP members before short-listing and the Momentum backed candidate spent their time phoning people slagging off the other candidates. There was a good smattering of homophobic and misogynistic abuse thrown in there.

Despite the AWS, the CLP is a sausage party now, because all the fairly elected officers ended up being bullied into stepping down by some of the Momentum bunch here and in the next door constituency.

This scenario seems to be the norm near here, sadly

I am a left wing feminist and a member of Momentum. I have donated to Jennifer James crowd funder and firmly believe that women are women based on their female biology... whilst transwomen are transwomen and deserve respect and understanding on that basis but they are NOT women.

I have to say that other Momentum members, men and women, that I have met have been lovely and passionate about ending austerity and bringing about a more equal society.

I have not personally seen any misogyny or rabid pro trans ideology in my dealings with this group.

The support for trans activism by some Momentum people mostly seems like a cynical attempt to grab the youth vote to me.

Jennifer James - who started the gofundme page to raise funds to challenge the appointment of men to positions for women in the Labour Party - is (or certainly used to be) a Momentum member. So I don't think it's as simple as saying Momentum is anti-women on this issue.

Jon Lansman as at it with the transactivist misogyny now; www.socfem.net/2018/01/open-letter-to-john-lansman

His original letter is at the bottom, where he says: 'trans people also suffer discrimination, probably greater than, for example, professional white middle class women'.

Because there is nothing white and middle class about Lily Maddigan is there?

The whole "transwomen suffer discrimination too you bigots" angle is absurd, like yes, maybe that's true. (Maybe actually transwomen are massively over represented and declaring yourself a Transwomam acts as a massive trampoline to gain advantage that you would not have gained as an effeminate man.)

So why is it always Women and feminists have to solve these problems for all people everywhere. Yes trans people have problems undoubtedly. But the problems are so different to the problems faced by women, it is male-driven ignorance to lump us all into one big oppressed homogeneous group, and expect that group to sort it's shit out so the real men can step aside.

declaring yourself a Transwomam acts as a massive trampoline to gain advantage that you would not have gained as an effeminate man

I agree with the trampoline absolutely. I don't think these men are effeminate though. Feminine men are almost always that way from very early in life and are often gay in orientation. Madigan isn't effeminate. Many aren't naturally effeminate, and the majority are straight in orientation. However they were or would be low status in the masculine hierarchy, and not well treated by other men or by women. Tranwomen certainly achieve social reward and status by transitioning, and a lot of female attention and centering, which is why I think there is such rage when that attention and sympathy doesn't move on the final step to agreeing to sex.

Many aren't naturally effeminate, and the majority are straight in orientation.

How very dare you!

Many transwomen find that once they transition, they are actually gay!!

Funny that......

I genuinely think the left are more misogynist than the right these days. They pretend not to be, but they are.

But the fact is that leftist policies would generally help women more than right wing policies.

I'm not sure I agree. What Corbyn and Mcdonell want is to to turn back the clock to a supposed sepia-tinged age when all the chaps did their manly jobs in the mines and the women were at home with the domestic drudgery. That Bennite crowd have always been sexist. Anything which gives women freedom they attack as 'capitalism'. One hears so much crap these days from the brocialists about 'neoliberal feminists' who want money and a career - as though a woman who wants her own life is a class traitor.

This country cannot afford for women to stay at home and not work, pay taxes, pay national insurance, no government would be able to pursue that.

Maybe, but I think that's where they're coming from ideologically. If a woman wants to make some money and have some independence, what's wrong with that?

I do think there is a tendency amongst some sections of the left to see women are some kind of support service for men, and any woman who steps away from that is a traitor and probably a closet Tory.

Some of the nastiest comments I've heard about Harriet Harman have come from left-wing men who object to her prioritising anything other than them. These are the same men I've heard describing anything feminist as 'trivial', 'self-indulgent', 'single issue politics' (which is a pointless dead end, apparently), and using really nasty sex-based insults against women who disagree with them. Women exist to make tea and babies, and should never step outside those roles.

The left are very patriarchal in the way they want to control everything with the state. Men have to control everything, regulate everything. Capitalism can be made to work for women imo.

I suspect we women are a problem for anyone who has a game changing plan to reorganise and rule the world.

They've got this big picture plan, but the nitty, gritty of actually making it work without unpaid labour hasn't quite been worked out.

Feminism and women's rights in general is the fly in the ointment.

In fact, matters regarding the elderly, the disabled, children, the sick, the incapacitated and women seem to be minor trivialities compared to the bigger picture of capitalism, socialism and politics in general.

We silly women need to look after house, home, children, sick and elderly relatives and they'll do the big stuff that matters.

Yeah, right.

They've got this big picture plan, but the nitty, gritty of actually making it work without unpaid labour hasn't quite been worked out.

Yep. And, with an ageing population, the care economy is only going to expand. And look at the balls up (pun intended) they've already made when they tried to marketise the bit of the care economy that does contribute to GDP!

Some very odd views here imo. In Europe those countries with more left or socialist policies are also more equal. Still undoubtedly capitalist countries but they don't rely so heavily on women doing unpaid care work and therefore staying out of top jobs. Or where being a single mother doesn't mean poverty and lack of opportunities.

Brownliver
Quite. In countries where childcare is free, and well paid by the state for those doing the childcare, women have far greater financial security and options compared to capitalist countries. These will be socialist countries, that benefit the lives of women.
Maybe feminism is actually a "single issue" cause, and actually it would be better to work together on the bigger overarching problems of class inequality.

Patodp But the brocialists in Momentum don't see it that way. They don't want that kind of socialism. I have been smacked down repeatedly for bringing up problems with maternity pay etc, as this is 'middle class feminism' and therefore inferior politics to their oh, so revolutionary politics.

I actually had Union reps in my place of work suggest that the maternity pay shouldn't be improved, and sick pay should instead, as only a few people got to benefit from maternity pay. Seriously.