Sex map of Britain - transgender dads

[AdalindSchade]

Anyone seen this on BBC? Two women having a baby and wanting to be called dads

How old were they? Just aware of the fact that the human brain doesn't fully mature until around 25.

Not surprised that both have "de-transitioned" although I'm unaware of how exactly they had transitioned in the first place. Doesn't seem like they had been taking cross-sex hormones, or even having a male haircut!

Both used testosterone for some time post-baby, and were crowdfunding for top surgery but I'm not sure either went through with it. They never cut hair or presented particularly masculine but do have facial hair/voice changes. (I have a mutual hobby with Dorian so we have interacted about that and use a lot of the same online spaces). I believe they were 24/25 at time of filming.

Why is the BBC still promoting this delusional nonsense...the others in the series don’t look much better. Glad to hear these women have finally come back to reality.

@Jackfruitboot
Any links to share?

Not sure how links from Tumblr would work has you have to have an account. But they go by their names as mentioned in the show on most things, have public Instagrams and easy to find on tumblr with a bit of googling. All very public.

It was certainly an interesting half hour and I found I could relate to a lot of what they were saying about being GNC

This is one of the things I find so troubling about this whole movement though. If you are GNC then do it as the woman you are or the man you are. Don't let your sex dictate your personality! That surely is what feminism is about.

If you seek to change your gender/ outward appearance to match your 'gender identity' then surely you are BECOMING gender conforming!

Honestly, this whole movement is about conforming on so many levels! Its like a massive social movement FOR conformity and convention and AGAINST individuality.

Rarely does one come against something where its outward statements are so misaligned with its actual actions and outcomes.

@NotTerfNorCis

So the mother is a woman who presumably doesn't have massive sexual dysphoria because she's going through pregnancy and childbirth. But she says she's a man. On what grounds? It doesn't add up.

Well, they presumably also don't have massive dysphoria as in five years of ' living as man' they still present entirely as female, and so their dysphoria is not related to the rest of the world perceiving or reacting to them as a woman.

They just appear to not want to be a female stereotype. They don't need to reject their sex to do that.

@Jackfruitboot

Both used testosterone for some time post-baby, and were crowdfunding for top surgery but I'm not sure either went through with it. They never cut hair or presented particularly masculine but do have facial hair/voice changes. (I have a mutual hobby with Dorian so we have interacted about that and use a lot of the same online spaces). I believe they were 24/25 at time of filming.

Its just really, really sad that these young women are being encouraged to think that they are men just because they don't want to be feminine stereotype.

Glad they came to be comfortable in themselves, but god, what sexist nonsense that they ever questioned they were women in the first place.

So four years ago they featured in a BBC programme as poster children for transmen doing (guess! go on, you'll never get it ...)

DRUMROLL

Having a baby! See, I said you'd never guess, because transmen in the media are always portrayed doing all sorts of things totally unrelated to their female bodies ...

Oh, sorry, transMEN. Forgot. It's transWOMEN we see doing all sorts of other things. Transmen are only notable for having babies. Isn't that odd?

Anyway now, four years after saying they thought they should be shown as fathers on their son's birth certificates they are both now living as women again. Thank goodness the law has stood firm on this point.

And they seemed to be shocked that the one giving birth had to be called the mother on the baby's birth certificate. I mean biology people!

I remember watching this at the time. Interested to hear they've both detransitioned - would like to have some evidence of this. I was only thinking of them yesterday when I was reading the birth story of a famous UK Transman who's had another baby very recently. Apparently they experienced one slip up by the surgical team that was about to perform a life-saving C-section on their small-for-dates premature baby. They had been in hospital for days being monitored and then induced and everyone had been brilliant using male pronouns, being respectful, never using the word Mother etc. But when things took a turn for the worse and they were wheeled into theatre for an emergency CS the transman overheard the surgical team talking about how they were going to perform surgery to extract the baby from the uterus and the team callously referred to 'she'. The transman protested asking 'who is she'?

The baby was born and is safe and well. But in the comments there is horror expressed at how these clinical staff need to learn how to talk to humans and that they "sucked'. The transman themselves described them as 'thoughtless' - 'thoughtless??? - maybe they had other things on their mind?! I just cannot understand how when you are in such a life and death, knife-edge situation you cannot cut anyone some slack for not abandoning their own beliefs and indulging your own identity issues. I know if I was a midwife I could not treat a transman during labour because I would genuinely not be able to guarantee that I would not use she, her in a situation where being female is such a bloody vital, fundamental part of the process I'm involved in. Hats off to the doulas and midwives that can (except the ones that refer to women who don't share their gender identity beliefs as C**ts) I honestly don't know how they do it.

@Farmerswife36

And their accents ?? Wtf was it ? American or English ?? Pair of them are deluded and I feel so sorry for baby Julian who is probably gunna end up as confused as his parents

Until teenage rebellion comes

Just watched the video. What I found notable was that when they were claiming to be 'devastated' that they could not be registered as 'father' on the birth certificate, neither of them looked devastated at all. There was the dramatic wiping of the face from the one who took the call, but there were no tears, their voice remained steady and controlled. They were not devastated. Mildly irked was more like it. The whole thing was like a performance where they knew they were expected to say this was really 'devastating' but neither of them really felt it.

I believe the person is in question is Dorian Ravenscroft, who judging by their Instagram is now very much back in "girl mode".

Her Twitter (saying he/him) appears dead by a few years.

Really BBC should update the documentary at the end to say that she has now detransitioned. That would be a very powerful statement.

Dorian apparently writes terrible Les Mis fan fiction (according to Good Reads reviews) and cosplays a Les Mis character.

@Humbold

I remember watching this at the time. Interested to hear they've both detransitioned - would like to have some evidence of this. I was only thinking of them yesterday when I was reading the birth story of a famous UK Transman who's had another baby very recently. Apparently they experienced one slip up by the surgical team that was about to perform a life-saving C-section on their small-for-dates premature baby. They had been in hospital for days being monitored and then induced and everyone had been brilliant using male pronouns, being respectful, never using the word Mother etc. But when things took a turn for the worse and they were wheeled into theatre for an emergency CS the transman overheard the surgical team talking about how they were going to perform surgery to extract the baby from the uterus and the team callously referred to 'she'. The transman protested asking 'who is she'?

The baby was born and is safe and well. But in the comments there is horror expressed at how these clinical staff need to learn how to talk to humans and that they "sucked'. The transman themselves described them as 'thoughtless' - 'thoughtless??? - maybe they had other things on their mind?! I just cannot understand how when you are in such a life and death, knife-edge situation you cannot cut anyone some slack for not abandoning their own beliefs and indulging your own identity issues. I know if I was a midwife I could not treat a transman during labour because I would genuinely not be able to guarantee that I would not use she, her in a situation where being female is such a bloody vital, fundamental part of the process I'm involved in. Hats off to the doulas and midwives that can (except the ones that refer to women who don't share their gender identity beliefs as C**ts) I honestly don't know how they do it.

I also noticed in that same post, and in the comments, quite a lot being made of how the room was 'cluttered' and how off putting it was.

Honestly those nurses and midwives should be trained in Feng Shei and had a tidy up. I'm sure they have nothing else better to do and there are multiple surplus 'things' that could be put out of sight.

That video made it sound as though if Dorian had a GRC, then putting down "father" would have been an option (even though it was also said that the person who bears the child, goes down as mother).

I just watched the first few minutes and one other thing struck me - the fact the mother has used Dorian as a model for her art, for images she clearly reproduces and sells, since she was very young - and Dorian has apparently had no say in that.

It’s like putting endless photos and videos of your child/teenager on FB/YouTube, only worse, because shes continuing to do it and she’s making money from it. Zero respect for her child’s boundaries/privacy.

I got up to the bit where Dorian says she has a complicated relationship with her mother, and thought, yeah, you’re not kidding. I’ll bet that along with rejecting the whole girly stereotype thing, and being a lesbian in a world where lesbians are increasingly pressured to identify as male, a huge part of what’s behind her “transition” (she’s seriously just about the most obviously female person you could imagine, in every way!) is the way her mother has exploited her for her professional gain, and continues to do so, and has trampled over her boundaries. All while being “woke” and “accepting” and generally full of shit and lacking in any real parental protectiveness.

(Not exonerating the father, btw, either: I don’t know if he appears later in the programme but no mention of him initially: if he hasn't bothered to take part in his daughter’s upbringing then she’s had two crappy parents, which won’t have helped.)

To me it looks very like the “identifying as male” bollocks is pushback against a mother who has prioritised her art over her daughter; who has literally made a career out of putting her daughter’s life/development on show - who has definitely not put her needs first. Cry for help/attention, effectively. But clearly she [Dorian] is completely unaware of that.

@RoaringtoLangClegintheDark I guess that is a possible explanation. That her feelings of dysphoria were related to feeling that her body was used and put on show in ways she had no control over and did not like.