So how do we fight the misleading guidance that is eroding the Equalities Act?

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

I know we are already fighting the battle on too many fronts, but one thing that seems particularly insidious is the undermining of the legal sex based exceptions in the Equalities act eg recently

• Swimming pond
• TIM trying to perform smear test
• TIMs on female wards in hospitals
• TI children in schools / guides etc

These organisations, as far as I can tell, are all going against the Equalities act with complete impunity - I presume they are being advised by TRAs?

This is legislation that already exists to protect women's spaces - why is it not being used?

Another one that springs out to me in particular is the Education and the involvement of Mermaids.

What scrutiny have Mermaids been put under? Is what they are saying properly backed up? What is the political position and does this create any conflicts of interests?

Seems to me that there is a distinct lack of safeguarding that has gone on here. Someone has seen they are a charity who support families and trans kids, but hasn't really thought much beyond that.

Also, if you are letting in Mermaids are you also letting in Homosexual charities who might be doing work on sexual orientation.

How can children make an informed decision if they are being taught about gender identity but not also sexual orientation?

If you are doing one and not the other, are you leaving yourself open to the accusation of homophobia?

Just wanted to let you ladies know that your posts have inspired me to donate the £1467 I recently had returned to me by HMRC for overpayment of tax to the Labour Party and to Stonewall 😘

Good for you Lyra . You're as entitled to your opinion and to use your money to please yourself as any 'lady' here.

Seems to me that there is a distinct lack of safeguarding that has gone on here.

Much of the guidance given to and circulated by education clashes with existing legislation and policy such as safeguarding, the Equality Act, the Code of Practice..... I doubt the incoherence has been missed, but people will be afraid to speak the truth and point out the incoherence in position and the legal entitlements and risks to the children involved.

And yes, the homophobia aspect is something that needs to be openly challenged.

Unlike others, we don't preach to people how they should spend their money and what causes they should support, Lyra

are trans women trans women, who are fine to join women in many social situations and categories but there are exemptions around intimate care, nudity, privacy and dignity where biological women are seen as a specific legal group with their own separate rights

As far as I am aware this is currently the law as it stands, it's just that lobbying groups are convincing institutions that it is not, which is frankly a bit bizarre.

sisterhoodispowerful.wordpress.com/2016/06/17/a-uk-guide-for-non-lawyers-about-protecting-women-only-spaces-june-2016/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Sorry side track

What happened with bounty? I just googled and it's all old and about the campaign. Were they kicked off? I have a feeling they weren't.

Much of the guidance given to and circulated by education clashes with existing legislation and policy such as safeguarding, the Equality Act, the Code of Practice..... I doubt the incoherence has been missed, but people will be afraid to speak the truth and point out the incoherence in position and the legal entitlements and risks to the children involved.

You make a big assumption with that.

What was very apparent to me with Bounty was people charged with safeguarding issues really didn't think or were fully aware of what their responsibilities where and what conflict of interests there were because no one had ever bothered to ask the relevant questions in a formal process.

Instead they tended to be unthinking bureaucrats who seemly followed what everyone else was doing, thinking that somewhere along the line one of these other people had asked the blindly obvious.

They didn't want to take on the extra work associated with flagging up a potential conflict of interest. Its easier just to agree than question what might have come from a superior.

Asking in a formal way, gives power to staff who feel they can't ask relevant questions because of the risk to their job.

Honestly it sounds ridiculous, but it definitely seemed to be the case, that if not one complains, that equalled there was no problem. Not a mentality of what possible problems could arise from this.

I think it is a problem of British society and of large institutions. This is why we are getting a shit load of scandals. And why this is a scandal waiting to happen.

My old manager was a arse of the highest order and one of his annoying habits way saying: Don't ASSUME. It makes an ASS out of U and ME.

Its gratingly good advice.

Red I worked for years for an LA and much of what came down from on high was gone through with a toothcomb and a lot of 'Oh God how do we implement this (because we have to) while spinning it to cause the least possible harm. I worked with a lot of brilliant people who were very fed up, very ground down, and most of whom have long since left the field they got so sick of it all. I wonder if I was just lucky in being part of a particularly good team.

They were kicked off but the DoH were forced to admit there were concerns that were being over looked and that there were problems with safeguarding. A few Trusts did say they they would not renew.

It might have only been a tiny victory in the scheme of things but it did force an acknowledge and hospitals to think more about whether what they were doing could be problematic. I'd personally like it to have gone further. It probably did need a legal challenge.

It did demonstrate to me though, the extent to which you can expose institutional pants around the ankles and a good way to start anything of this nature by a soft approach.

It creates more difficult questions that are harder to simply ignore.

Honestly it sounds ridiculous, but it definitely seemed to be the case, that if not one complains, that equalled there was no problem. Not a mentality of what possible problems could arise from this.

YY. I've worked in several different areas of the public sector and in my experience that is the case.

Sorry

*They weren't kicked off

Regarding the issue of single-sex wards, I emailed [email protected] to ask whether they still support single-sex wards being, err, single sex.

Its as stupid as the changing room situation.

Yes we agree whole heartedly that mixed sex wards are wrong and undignified and get fined if we do it.

Yes we agree whole heartedly it is wrong and a breach of privacy and dignity for one sex to be compelled to undress, be in situations of nudity or accept intimate care in front of the other sex.

UNLESS the other sex is a man who has decided he is internally a woman. In that case the exact same objective experience that is considered wrong and offensive must be treated by the woman as if it's perfectly ok because objective reality changes in the presence of a man's internal, subjective feelings.

It makes a total nonsense of having sex separation at all in any situation.

Thanks for that re Bounty, redtoothbrush