"Why some women are standoffish" - Twitter thread

[hackmum]

I wanted to share this with people becuase it's so good:

twitter.com/LilyEvansMFC/status/949100700964827136

The OP explains how she was out walking her dog, when a man said hello and they had what she thought was a friendly chat. Then he started following her and tried to find out where she lived and it all became very sinister.

One of the things that constantly bugs me is this double bind women are in, particularly young women. My 18 year old daughter is going through it right now. A man will approach you in a public place - smile, and say hello. You feel obliged to smile and say hello back, because it's the polite thing to do, and you've been brought up to be polite and friendly to strangers. And you don't want to be one of those dreadful feminists who think all men are out to rape you, do you?

But then if you're a bit friendly, that encourages them. And then they want to keep talking or buy you a drink or start following you, as the woman on this Twitter thread found. And we all know how it ends: if they do rape you, or attempt to assault you, it will be your fault because you encouraged them. Because that's the way it goes, doesn't it? People think: Oh, how stupid that woman was to not realise she was at risk from that obviously predatory man.

But if she's rude to the man, then she's some kind of evil feminist bitch who thinks all men are rapists. Because how dare we tar all men with the same brush?

And so she isn't rude, not just because she doesn't want to be impolite, but because she knows that being rude or cold or standoffish might provoke him.

So women, and particularly girls my daughter's age, are in this situation where they have to find exactly the right balance between being too friendly (and therefore encouraging further come-ons) and being not friendly enough (and therefore provoking hostility).

I'd recommend the thread to any man who just doesn't get it.

Yes this is a good one.

I stopped going into a particular corner shop after the man behind the counter asked me late at night where I was going and if I was going by myself.

It was a bit of a pain because it opened later than the other corner shop, but I decided that even if all I was keeping myself safe from was "having an uncomfortable feeling" then it was worth it.

Women have been attacked and killed for saying 'no'. We take constant precautions. I dont get how so many men are completely oblivious to this or actively offended by it.

This man invited 2 women in a train station to have sex with him and retaliated when they said no;
www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/15787346.Police_hunt_man_after_woman_pushed_down_stairs_at_station/

The other thing is that (some) women are so insecure that they don't always trust their instincts. They think, "Oh, how vain and self-important of me to imagine this man has any designs on me. Probably he is just being friendly." And that's their downfall.

Women learn tricks as they age. A sort of feigned deafness plus stupidity has served me well. Distractability. Headphones. Pretend texts.

I had a friend who, I kid you not, used to dribble. Out of the corner of her mouth. On public transport if there was one of these.

Sorry. I meant to say, isn't it horrific that it happens SO MUCH that we know to find these tactics. There are so many of these men.

Actually no, that's really not how it works. Most people are aware enough to spot an obvious creeper, the kind who follow you home, and don't engage at all or mumble a non-comittal no thank you/grubtingnoise if necessary to get them to leave you alone. In other situations you act under ordinary social rules. If you are walking you say hi and keep walking. If you decide to stop and make citchat then you just say oh I must dash and indeed dash whoever you feel uncomfortable/sick of the conversation. The problem is when women don't feel able to politely extricate themselves from the situation and instead let it get out of control. Creepers you ignore and avoid eye contact. Everyone else you make brief eye contact and say hi. If you feel uncomfortable then leave assertively. The only cases when this can go wrong as cases when a man would follow you no matter what you did. The same goes for overbearing mums at the school gate. Women need to learn that you don't have to be completely pliant to other people's wishes in order to be polite.

It took me til my mid twenties to learn that I don't have to be polite to random men talking to me in the street. Every time it would end up turning uncomfortable or nasty and I just put up with it as part of life.

I was out for a walk the other week & stopped to enjoy a really pretty view.

There was a man there who looked at me a few times, then started telling me about it and asking if I lived locally, how had I got there, etc. I'd have loved to just stay & explore for a bit but ended up moving on to get away from the questions.

You have to learn to fight your socialization.

When I was 18, this was very hard.

But over the years I have learnt that I don’t owe random strangers chit chat or a polite response or even acknowledgement that they exist.

It's Schroedinger's Rapist. Women are wise not to take any chances. kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/

I think there needs to be more explicit definition of being polite.

To make it clear that brush-offs, providing they are not gratuitously rude/insulting, are a perfectly acceptable response, and politeness refers only to the choice of words in delivering a brush-off (not in giving a brush-off in itself).

So responding to a greeting with just a nod is fine. As are a range of other 'go away' responses. And people need to know that it's OK to do that.

Most people are aware enough to spot an obvious creeper, the kind who follow you home

Nope. I've worked with rapists and sex offenders and no, you can't. There is a proportion of weird and creepy. Then there are a fair amount of 'completely normal seeming' and then there are a fair few 'really personable and lovely seeming'.

Although that does get in the way of victim-blaming a bit.

There is a proportion of weird and creepy. Then there are a fair amount of 'completely normal seeming'

Yep, I have more than one story of completely normal seeming people who then turned creepy and wouldn't take polite, then firm, and then rude attempts to get rid of them (I became an expert at the turn a corner and ditch a follower when I was younger - there was a group I hung out with who had no idea where I lived I was so adept at it - and that was friends, not even people I was concerned about!).

You can't tell a creep until they've crossed a boundary.

Oooh, do the creepers now come with a badge or something? Because, like MrsTP, I've worked with sex offenders before and apart from a couple who were really really creepy, the rest were quite personable, heading into the quite charming bracket of behaviour.

Ted Bundy was, by all accounts, charm personified.

I don't want to derail the conversation, but why did the OP omit the fact that Lily Evans's Twitter account has the tagline "NSFW 18+ ONLYYYYY THANK YOU. World's okayest camgirl" from their original post? Not that that fact discredits Lily Evans's views in any way, but I really didn't want to see some of her explicit Twitter photos when I clicked on her profile page after reading the informative/relatable conversation stream. Also, when the OP ends the post with " I'd recommend the thread to any man who just doesn't get it." with a link to a camgirl's Twitter feed where x-rated videos are promoted, I don't know what to say...