What really matters

[Kimonolady]

I’ve been a poster for a while, but have only ever lurked on the feminism chat threads.

I’m so, so angry at how fucked up society is. How violence towards women is so widely tolerated, and seen as the norm by many. Reading about Theodore Johnson in the news yesterday and John Warboys today has made me feel so angry and like nothing is changing.

I hate though that when I come on the feminism threads, the issue of violence against women is barely discussed. All I see, again and again, is this obsession with trans issues.

Look at the top threads in this section right now: complaints that a trans woman is on the cover of Vogue, trans women and the Hampstead Heath Ponds, lesbians having sex with trans women, GRA, Lilly M, Jamie the Musical, Mermaids. Why the fixation?

Im so mad about what’s happening in the world that I want to scream.

For those of you who haven’t been following the news by the way -

Theodore Johnson
www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/03/theodore-johnson-freed-to-kill-domestic-violence-failure

John Warboys
www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/04/taxi-rapist-john-worboys-released-prison/amp/

I think a lot of us worry that letting men into women's spaces will result in entitled twats being even more confident of their right to do whatever they want to women, op. You're upset about one case but ignoring legislation that could pave the way for more.

They let john warboys out? They fucking let him out? TEN YEARS?

So which bit don't they give a fuck about

Punishment
Safety of society
Justice seen to be done

Answers are 2 and 3. This is the most prolific of sex offenders, who orchestrated a carefully thought out campaign of rape and sexual assault over YEARS. His victims are thought to be over 100. Yet our system in all it's wisdom has decided that he has "served his time" and let him out in what amounts to a massive fuck-you to all those victims (that's about 1 month for each victim, probably less, we don't know how many victims there are) plus the fact that sex offenders of this nature don't tend to be "rehabilitated". In fact there is no mention in the blurb that the parole board feels he no longer is a threat - a telling omission.

When are we going to get to a point where men who sexually abuse and assault women (and children and other men) are kept locked up not until they have met some patriarchy approved "oh he's paid enough" random time but until a group of experts are as sure as they possibly can be that they pose NO THREAT and if that means they are locked up forever then so be it.

TEN FUCKING YEARS is all the rape and assault of literally SCORES of women is worth.

Can I just point everyone to the thread I just started with contact details for Lidington, the Secretary of State for Justice. He's apparently the person with the power to overturn the parole decision. Let's bury him under emails till he can't ignore it.

Please - emailing him will take the same amount of time it takes you to write a post on mumsnet.

The 'fascination' with trans issues is because of violence against women and girls - because the erosion of female only spaces makes us more vulnerable to predatory males.....

But I'm very angry about the two cases you mentioned -- how many women do you have to kill before they take women's safety seriously, and how many do you need to rape? Warboys should never be released only opinion, then he could never do it again.Who does it profit?

It's not a fascination, it's a response to a direct issue that will potentially affect women and girls.

You're wrong to think that violence against women and girls is not discussed here. It is frequently.

the issue of violence against women is barely discussed. All I see, again and again, is this obsession with trans issues.

Male violence against women will be more difficult to identify, report or otherwise fight because of the trans cult agenda. It creates a loop hole through which male violence can be legitimised or disguised.

The threads are about this. Not because women are against transwomen but because of the way the agenda erases women's ability to fight male violence. It is concerned with men who use trans as a smoke screen for their violence, which also harms and threatens the interests of law abiding transwomen who are sensitive to the concerns of women which are related to their biological sex.

Lily Madigan is supposed to be representing these issues, yet virtually all LM talks about is trans issues. This is an erasure of these issues and a loss of representation about issues such as male violence. This is why the appointment of LM is important. It shows up that transwomen and women do have different priorities and concerns, which makes them fundamentally different. Its important that both have voices that are reflective of those communities.

There is no 'fixation with trans issues'. Trans cult can not be separated from male violence. Trans cult acts as a Trojan horse for male violence.

If we can't define what a woman is how can we defend women from male violence?

The reason we're so concerned about trans issues is because

(a) If we can't say who is a woman and who isn't we can't defend women's rights and safety

(b) Predatory males are seeking, and being granted, access to women's spaces including women's prisons

(c) Violent and sexual crimes committed by men are being reported as having been carried out by women

Kimonolady I'm with you.

The trans thing has taken over feminist conversation all over the place.

In radfem circles it's discussion of changes to laws and no platforming and organising somehow to push back

In libfem circles it's how to centre trans people (trans women let's be clear) in everything and stop talking about anything related to female biology ie no more feminism full stop as it's all related to biology

And further afield in LGBT circles it's all about the T as well. Things at work, frequented by earnest gay and lesbian people, sitting around pushing all their own issues to one side again to discuss trans and nothing but trans

Whole thing is a nightmare.

Meanwhile women continue being raped assaulted murdered mistreated discriminated against denied healthcare vilifed by the media denied basic rights etc and so on so many issues all over the world

It is true to to remove any words or category for female humans that is just for them removes our ability to discuss anything to do with that group. This is intentional and this is why people talk about it - the consequences of having no word do describe cunty people, surely the most basic and first categorisation in all human societies over all time, is bizarre and worrying.

I also wonder if as the world regresses so quickly in so many places with the rise of different flavours of religious fundamentalism that it's so hard to know what if anything to do, it's so depressing, that railing against TAs is an outlet for lots of general anger.

It's not trivial though.

If they succeed then the MRAs have won - male violence is obscured, "people" do everything, and it's impossible to flag anything that disproportionately affects one sex.

It is all part of the same issue. The fact that people can see this is very depressing. It is like watching toddlers with a 2 piece jigsaw, and they can't see how it fits together when it is obvious how they fit together. Very frustrating.

@PricklyBall thank you, I will certainly take a look at that.

Thanks everyone for your responses and engaging with me. @RedToothBrush, I think where we differ is that I don’t accept your points that trans issues act as a Trojan horse for violence against women. I can’t accept that trans issues are a smoke screen. Look at the 137 women murdered in 2017 in the UK by men - how many, if any, of the perpetrators are trans?

One woman murdered by a man every 2.6 days last year. It’s just unacceptable.

@ATeardropExplodes this isn’t a helpful response. Rather than just tell me that I’m like a toddler with a 2 piece jigsaw, maybe try and explain why to me?

Thank you to all posters who have shared their views with me, even if we disagree.

All I see, again and again, is this obsession with trans issues.

Yes, well, if you are worried about MVAWG, then the trans issues should be at the top of your agenda because if you think the current situation is bad, wait until all safe, single sex spaces have been eliminated. It's a free pass for all rapists, voyeurs and abusers.

That said, I am also late to the show. I've spent the years since 2010 concentrating on the gendered impact of austerity and trying to fight against that. Got so busy with it that the trans stuff pretty much passed me by.

Want to guess who woke me up, OP? A transsexual friend. Not "obsessed" or "fixated" Mumsnetters. A transsexual friend. Who understands perfectly well that this is a fundamental fight for women's rights and, if it isn't won, all the other feminist concerns - representation, influence, MVAWG, gendered austerity, etc etc, will be unfightable because women, as a definable category, will have ceased to exist.

Bethany Hill was murdered by 2 men, one a transwoman. The crime was reported as male and female crime, this happens quite a lot so it's hard to say how often women are hurt by men who identify as women.

Women can worry about more than one thing at once y'know. I remember back in the good old days when MRA's would constantly berate feminists for not worrying about the right issues.

Allowing the class that harms. murders and rapes greater access to the class that doesn't is a huge problem, ya get that right?

Kimono, I totally get why it sometimes feels like trans issues are taking over to the exclusion of all else, I have sometimes felt this myself. But here's one very concrete example. One women's group (other posters who're on top of the relevant campaigning groups can probably supply links) went through official prison reports and used FOI requests to gain a picture of the current state in prisons. Approx. 100 prisoners in the male estate have currently expressed interest in transitioning. Of those over 40 are sex offenders. Under the current rules, they will not be transfered without a GRC, which includes psychologists checking that their claim is genuine. Under the proposed new rules, they will be able to self-identify.

This will (1) place 40 be-penised sex offenders into the female estate, with vulnerable women who are mostly there for non-violent crimes (receiving stolen goods, drugs offences, non-payment of fines) and who have a much higher likelihood of being victims of past sexual abuse than the population at large - i.e they're a very vulnerable population; and (2) artificially inflate the number of "female" sex offenders by approximately 50% (because only 2% of sex offenders are female - they're a tiny proportion of the total incarcerated).

The official body for psychologists working in prisons put in an official submission to Maria Miller's enquiry pointing out that in with the genuinely trans prisoners, there were lots of predatory men (not trans people) who would take advantage of self ID either to get a softer prison environment, or to gain access to women. This was their professional opinion as experts working in the field. They were ignored.

To be fair the trans threads were hurtling towards critical mass because the changes to the law were imminent.

The only reason this has been postponed is because of places like mumsnet where discussion has been allowed to flourish.

Male violence is intricately intertwined with the trans-ideology. Partly because if you can't name it you can't address it. But also because it is allowing rank misogyny in through the back door. And then legitimising it.

My outrage over Worboys and Johnson is indescribable.

But it's the bloody impotency which is almost worse.

The sure fire knowledge that society does not give a single flying fuck about women. It's so obvious.

OP, I'm all over the trans threads, but I can promise you, the only reason, is precisely because of men, their violence and their agenda.

I’m with you OP. The trans issue is not as important to me as violence against women. I agree that aspects of trans are problematic but prior to trans there were shocking levels of violence against women.
The issue of statistics is not as important as some think. The statistics are already absolutely unacceptable and a couple being classified as female violence is (relatively) unimportant in the face of existing statistics.
I think many women seize on this issue because it is something concrete and relatively straightforward. Tackling general male violence against women is a much bigger and more complex issue.

What would happen if Worboys committed some more rapes and sexual assaults and when caught declared himself a woman?

He just has to self ID and then he can access women's spaces anyway - and no one could stop him! He's a predator and they use anything they can to access women and children (as we have to keep saying again and again)....

If the law changes then the sex that causes the harm will receive greater rights, they will find it easier to access women and girls. Women will lose their voice as public roles go to men, they will lose representation and so issues like male violence are no longer discussed.

How does a reduction in women's rights and granting greater rights to men help us fight male violence?

couple being classified as female violence is (relatively) unimportant in the face of existing statistics.

Except it really isn't - the rates of violent crime committed by women significantly lower - talking a magnitude lower - so it doesn't take many men being reported as women to significantly change the statistics - that's how stars work.

Tackling male violence seems impossible given how little men care about it. There's no political will to make any radical changes. I had hopes for the Womens Equality Party but they seem to be a total dud.

To use your example, and back of the napkin estimates, if 98% violence is committed by men, and 2% by women, then out of 100 convicted people, if one man says he's a woman, that's put the women's violent crime rate up by 50%

There's a very strong incentive for male criminals to identify as female - access to women and easier living conditions - so every bullshitter will be at it. Think what that will do to the crime stats.