Police Failing to Provide Tampons/Pads to Women Detainees

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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42556384

"One woman, it says, had her clothes removed and was dressed in a paper suit.

Despite her having her period, her underwear had been removed and she was refused any sanitary protection.

"She was left in a state of vulnerability sufficient to cause concern for her wellbeing, bleeding in a paper suit, alone in a cell," the ICVA said.

Sherry Ralph, the organisation's chief operating officer, said that custody suites "typically only have one absorbency of tampon and towel available".

"One senior officer described the packs that they have to buy as 'woeful'," she added"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42556384

I wish I could say I was surprised by this. Period poverty is systemic under austerity, and it is the very women most burdened by that who will suffer most from this.

I know several custody officers that work in 2 different police forces.
They do provide sanitary towels but not tampons due to the risk, albeit small, of toxic shock syndrome.

It must be confirmed my the nurse/doctor that they need one before being given a towel though as some 'clients' aren't necessarily calm and rational and have been known to use spent sanitary products, along with body solids/fluids, in dirty protests to attack/threaten officers. Blood can be extremely toxic and those in detention taking a used sanitary item and throwing it at officers in protest/anger is a serious bio-hazard.

Reinette That all makes sense, but surely there would be a similar bio-hazard risk from menstrual blood that was flowing freely, if not more likely to be got on any fabric available and launched in a similar manner?

I really don't know why you think that risk of suicide has anything to do with this

It's got everything to do with this. Women are offered sanitary products, there's just not a good range

The example given in the OP of a female DP being refused. I was explaining why this would be.

Do you have any experience working with vulnerable women?

A shit tonne of working with criminal ones. Yourself?

Lloyd - this is a genuine question - is there no concern at all about blood with potential pathogens being spread around a cell?

Not really. Specialist cleaners are called out to deal with it. Same as with dirty protests

This doesn’t surprise me.

As a secondary teacher in a deprived area, myself and the other female members of staff have been supplying sanitary products for the girls in our care for years. Ofsted and the government bang on about poor attendance yet we could clearly see the monthly pattern for many of the girls. To the extent that when we looked at it on a spreadsheet the pattern made us gasp. Dramatic improvement since School offer them free in the toilets. Our HT actually tried to get the media involved in highlighting this but they weren’t interested despite the clear and dramatic improvement in our attendance rates. Oh and Ofsted insisted on recording it as being a direct consequence of improving quality of teaching rather than accept the reality. Despite the fact that we hadn’t changed how we taught.

So rather than pay for enough staff to be available to deal with prisoners, they'd rather let a woman sit in her own blood and then pay for specialist cleaners to deal with the mess?

So rather than pay for enough staff to be available to deal with prisoners, they'd rather let a woman sit in her own blood and then pay for specialist cleaners to deal with the mess?

Yep

Or alternatively they don't let a woman kill herself, with her being uncomfortable sitting in her own blood being the lesser of 2 evils

Well that makes a lot of sense!

Essentially what we're saying on this thread is that there's no justification for allowing a person to sit in their own blood. You're saying it's happening due to a lack of staff and I believe you. That doesn't justify it in any way.

"The example given in the OP of a female DP being refused. I was explaining why this would be."

The word you need is 'might', not 'would' - and in the event that there is a serious risk of suicide, perhaps it would be worth highlighting this from the IPCC site:

"It has long been accepted that police custody is not a suitable place of safety. It has the effect of criminalising people who are in need of medical attention, can exacerbate their mental state, and in the most tragic cases can lead to deaths in custody. For the past twenty years it has been government policy that police custody should only be used as a last resort. Yet there has been no national data on the extent to which it has been used."

Dramatic improvement since School offer them free in the toilets.

You'd think this would be a perfect use of the pupil premium really, wouldn't you?

Well, if Lloyd is telling the truth about being professionally involved with this sort of thing (I've checked their posting history in the last month, and they appear to have consistently authoritarian and anti-women views across the board), then we can see for ourselves exactly what (hopefully very small) subset of professionals in the criminal justice system would happily perpetrate what looks (cf Red's post above) like a fairly obvious human rights abuse.

Leaving someone sitting in their own menstrual blood is no different from leaving them sitting in their own shit - it is cruel and inhumane treatment.

So rather than pay for enough staff

And where exactly are they going to get all this extra money from for extra staff to deal with the occasional female in custody? Most people who end up in custody are male. Females make up a small number. They cannot employ an ad hoc extra officer or 2 to supervise a female who may or may not need to use sanitary products.

there would be a similar bio-hazard risk from menstrual blood that was flowing freely, if not more likely to be got on any fabric available and launched in a similar manner

Inside a paper suit (although the vast majority of people arrested don't need to change out of their own clothing, its only if its a serious offence they're suspected of and their clothing needs to be forensically processed so they would be given a paper suit) or inside their own clothing is easier to contain than a blood soaked tampon/towel being thrown around and aimed at officers.

I suppose you could strip off and throw your clothes at an officer but a large item of clothing is both slower to be thrown at you and easier to see so easier to avoid. A small tampon is quicker when thrown and more difficult to see when being held/concealed and thrown at you so more difficult to avoid. I've not experienced free flowing blood myself except immediately after giving birth so I cant answer that.

'And where exactly are they going to get all this extra money from for extra staff to deal with the occasional female in custody? Most people who end up in custody are male. Females make up a small number. They cannot employ an ad hoc extra officer or 2 to supervise a female who may or may not need to use sanitary products.'

What Lloyd was saying was that the woman was probably denied sanitary products because there weren't enough staff to supervise a very vulnerable prisoner. It's not about whether the woman is menstruating or not - there's a lack of staff to deal with the needs of the people they have in custody. That's the issue.

If you can commit suicide with a tampon (?) I’d have thought you could also commit tampon with a paper suit....so why was she allowed one of those?

Anyway in that example it doesn’t say she was a suicide risk. It also doesn’t say she was complaining about the lack of range of products. Clearly says she was denied anything.

You'd think this would be a perfect use of the pupil premium really, wouldn't you?

Absolutely! But no, Ofsted feel it’s not far reaching enough. And by that they mean it’s not benefitting our highlighted target of underachieving deprived white boys. And I accept it’s not but it’s certainly, without any doubt, benefitting deprived girls of all colours.

Just catching up and see Lloyd has compared menstrual blood to shit.

And also that only a professional cleaning team would be expected to deal with it, therefore there is no-one available to help the woman if she needs it, due to the blood.

I mean come on. As soon as she's started bleeding everywhere she's a biohazard. How is that beneficial to anyone at all.

Gosh, the very thought of providing sanitary products! Dear lord! The things that Real People need are provided, the things that - ugh - women need are special extra minority things that shouldn't really be talked about. Asking for them to be supplied as standard is really taking things too far! The cheek of it!!!

there's a lack of staff to deal with the needs of the people they have in custody. That's the issue

I'd say the basic issue is, as highlighted on the NHS thread, money.

Vulnerable people with MH issues should never end up in police custody but their families don't know how to access out of hours services so they call the police instead.

The police can only hold them in custody until they are assessed by out of hours services then they would be moved elsewhere if there is room or sent home, so back to square 1 again. If the person is behaving in such a way they are a danger to themselves then every effort will be made to stop them from hurting themselves and others. This might seem cruel but whats really cruel is not having the services to deal with people who need help before they end up in custody.

The police are not mental health experts and shouldn't be asked by families or the public to deal with people who have MH problems.

They have to make split second decisions as to whether a person is a danger to themselves or the public based on what they are told and what they see in front of them. If a persons been taken into custody to protect themselves then the procedure is to minimise the risk to that person. Some of the actions taken to minimise that persons risk may not always seem to be the sort of treatment you or I would like.

I get that Reinette. Again, you're not really disagreeing with the point of the thread which is that it's wrong to deny someone basic resources that protect their dignity, no matter what the reason is. The fact that this is caused by a lack of suitable care due to money doesn't take anyway from that argument.

"I've checked their posting history in the last month, and they appear to have consistently authoritarian and anti-women views across the board"

What a surprise.

This is a police officer, it's no surprise that women and girls are being failed so much. We're in the minority arrested, so things aren't set up to accommodate our needs but the needs of men, and the people paid to look after us think that removing all the clothes from a psychologically disturbed woman and then leaving her to sit in her own menstrual blood is an appropriate and sensible approach.

Awesome.

Anyway in that example it doesn’t say she was a suicide risk

Well it wouldn't would it. Doesn't make as good a headline.

(I've checked their posting history in the last month, and they appear to have consistently authoritarian and anti-women views across the board), then we can see for ourselves exactly what (hopefully very small) subset of professionals in the criminal justice system would happily perpetrate what looks (cf Red's post above) like a fairly obvious human rights abuse

Well done Miss Marple! Checking posting history massive gold star to you. However I'm "happily" perpetuating nothing of the sort.

Would I prefer someone to be sat uncomfortably in their bodily fluids rather than dying? Yes.

Would I want an investigation lasting years looking to blame absolutely anyone other than the person who hurt themselves, potentially losing my livelihood and possibly even going to prison? No.

So again, what would you do in that situation?

If you can commit suicide with a tampon (?) I’d have thought you could also commit tampon with a paper suit....so why was she allowed one of those?

Because they're designed in a way to stop that. Tampons sanitary towels aren't

My local police force has a long history of failing women, murdering black men with no come-back, accepting bribes, and other forms of corruption.

These people who accept that whatever the police do must be the right thing are deluded and / or stupid and / or just hate certain sections of society.

Or are one of them I guess. Lots of in-club and cronyism stuff, which makes it more difficult to investigate when things happen that are wrong. They close ranks and they lie. We all know this.

I met a woman once who was an armed officer in the met and she had to leave because of the relentless sexism. Calling her "cunt" all the time, all sorts of stuff.

Poor treatment of women is hard to believe of the police? I mean come off it.

@LloydSpinjago your total contempt for women represents the problem being discussed here. Fucking horrific that you deal with vulnerable women on a daily basis.