This is shocking...man who has killed three partners

[QuentinSummers]

I heard it on the news and though he had been caught for one murder and admitted two more
But no. He killed his first wife in 1981 and served time for manslaughter.
Second wife was killed in 1993 and again he served time for manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility.
He killed his latest partner, Angela, in 2016 and has finally been convicted of murder.

Why was nothing done to protect women from this monster? It says he was stalking her. Why wasn't she protected from him?

I'm so distressed by this. Men are up in arms about "false accusations ruining lives" and meanwhile men like this are out there killing women.
amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jan/02/man-pleads-guilty-murdering-ex-girlfriend-angela-best-theodore-johnson

Because it's their term, @LloydSpinjago. Obviously.

This is unbelievable.

I was involved with some charity work with a woman's shelter a few years ago. It was quite a small town. Women that had contact with the shelter for counselling or looking for emergency accommodation would name the same men over and over again. These men enjoy the abuse they dole out to women.

Lots of these women never press charges and who are we to judge if they do not feel able some men just don't value women I would say they actually hate them and see them as objects.

Yes they often call something like this a domestic, but that's not slang for "meaningless row" with an eye roll or something, it's just a quick way of referring to the type of situation they get summoned to.

Exactly. Same as being called to a "fatal" is short hand for a RTC where someone has died. Doesn't mean it's treated any less seriously.

Because it's their term, @LloydSpinjago. Obviously

The police coined the term domestic?

You're getting very defensive of the police and I understand that to a point but let's face it, they failed Angela and also his second wife. He's a danger to women and has demonstrated this repeatedly.

The police use the term @LloydSpinjago, no one is claiming they invented the terminology. They could call it something else, easily, which if it helps re-frame what this violence actually is might help wider society.

Much like rapes, murder only matters if it's a stranger that kills you. If it's your GF, DP, DW you want to rape or murder, that's fine, crack on.
This story made me livid too.

Oh yes . Women are both expected to perform weakness, and simultaneously victimised and condemned by it.

Just revisiting this thread and dismayed to see 1. Lack of comments in comparison to trans threads 2. That main subject of discussion is the meaning of a single word “domestic”

This is such a serious case and as another poster said it’s not unusual for violent men to be serial offenders. Surely we can have some sort of discussion about how this situation might be avoided in future, or about what women might do to notice they are in danger and escape.

Exactly. Same as being called to a "fatal" is short hand for a RTC where someone has died. Doesn't mean it's treated any less seriously.

Do you think the police take domestic violence seriously?

Some individual police officers certainly do. Shame there aren't more of them. As an institution, they don't take it seriously at all and nor do they treat victims appropriately.

Surely we can have some sort of discussion about how this situation might be avoided in future, or about what women might do to notice they are in danger and escape.

This situation might be avoided in future by this man actually getting jailed for an appropriate length of time after murdering the first woman.

The second one is harder. A lot of the signs of abuse are extremely subtle. In any case abusers make you feel you're worthless and that the abuse is your fault. In any case, as this case clearly shows, "getting out" did this woman no favours whatsoever. You're in the most severe danger at the point of leaving.

Some police officers and units within forces are very good at taking a stand against DV. What doesn't help is that the path to prosecuting an offender is so convoluted and the evidence is often limited. In my experience, rank and file coppers despise DV perpetrators. Judges and older, senior officers don't seem to take it very seriously.

deckoff

of course the police are not the only ones to blame.

But, having worked with them extensively for many years, I can tell you that however overworked or sleep deprived they are, there is a huge ingrained element of misogyny and victim blaming which contributes massively to why a lot of women don't report DV to them.

Of course, misogyny is ingrained in society at large but it really is time the police pulled their socks up about their attitudes to DV. Most of them don't understand the subtleties of what goes on.

"What women can do to escape"

Sadly it's very very VERY difficult to just up sticks and leave a relationship. Financially it can be almost impossible and that's only getting worse with the way the welfare state is headed. It takes thousands of pounds to secure new rental accommodation which most people don't have at theit fingertips.

But that aside, preparing to leave and the immediate aftermath of leaving actually makes the situation more dangerous for women.

Women in abusive relationships need access to actual practical help. The necessary money up front. Access to a vehicle. That sort of thing. Helplines and taskforces and that stuff just seem to be window dressing.

And OBVIOUSLY the courts are at fault too, that goes without saying. But I do hate this notion of never being able to criticise public services because they're overstretched. We know they are. So are those of us who work in DV. Most of us volunteer our time because there is literally no money given to us to help these women and children.

^In this case however - even assuming the police fucked up every single moment of everything, do you honestly just blame them and their terminology?

What about this bloke himself, his family, his friends, society? He didn't emerge out of a vacuum after all. What about the judicial system? Lawyers who purposefully destroy vulnerable witnesses, and find ridiculous excuses for clients. What about the NHS and the lack of money for mental health care?^

Yes, I honestly just blame the police and their terminology. No, wait, hang on that would be absurd and bizarre. So I seriously doubt there is anyone at all who thinks like that. I made the mistake of replying to an arsey thread-popper and participated in derailing the thread somewhat.

I don't even know where to start with how to change things. There's no general public will to make changes. Society still is sexist and it will take generations to shift things.

Good little woman and QOFE

Yes I know it’s hard to escape. As I said upthread I wouldn’t have escaped if I hadn’t had a friend who had escaped herself and spoke to me in a very matter of fact way about what was happening.

I wish I had known back then that various things he did indicated that he might be extremely dangerous.
-he assaulted me while I was pregnant, head butted, in the street, in view of other people. Escalation and complete disregard of social and personal boundaries
-he killed an animal (a rat) in front of me. Practicing killing animals is very common in men who go on to kill humans.

• he choked me. Known to be an indicator of fatal violence in intimate relationship
• he threatened to burn the house down. Also known to be an indicator of fatal violence.

Yes, I was still with him after he had done this and this was largely due to the minimising and gaslighting going on around me with family members who treated me as though I was hysterical. If I’d had information that evidenced the links between behaviour and killing above I would have felt more confident in making the decision to leave and less like I was over reacting and removing access to his child un necessarily. You have to remember that between these episodes he was sweet and apologetic and constant declaring how much he loved us, also that I had no confidence and self esteem.

I think the answer to protecting women from male violence is open discussion and lots of accurate information as well as funding and refuges.

wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool To be honest, I often can't bear to post on these terrible threads about the murder / rape of women as I can't see any way to right the wrong. Not because I don't care but because I CAN'T make the legal system treat women fairly, I can't influence the misogyny that has resulted in these shit sentences, I can't do anything to stop the terrible things that have happened to these poor women - apart from weep and rage at their fate.
However where I can see a wrong happening that reduces women's safety and has a negative impact on children, I might post in more detail where I think we can actually influence something.

I think that's why some of these threads about murdered women are so short - and it also seems disrespectful to 'debate' issues on a thread about a murdered woman

Good little woman
Yes, luckily my friend had made sure I knew the most dangerous point was when I left him. She had told me to keep money hidden where he wouldn’t find it and a small bag packed with change of clothes and nappies and snacks. She also told me that when I was sure I was ready to go I should wait till I knew he was out and then leave as quickly as possible taking our child with me and absolutely not to go back to the house for anything at all. She told me our lives were more important than any stuff I might need. She also say with me one night after I’d called the police. I’m forever grateful to her. I spent the night at a friends house then went into a women’s hostel and refuge.

Guardian free I can understand that. It’s good to rage. I do think this is a good platform where women might be reading who might need to have advice and support to leave though. I don’t think we can talk about this subject enough,

Do we think that an extension to the sexual offenders register would be of use? an official label that this man is not safe in relationships (this would also apply to gay men and a very few women). And yes in extreme cases something like the sex asbo mentioned above which actively requires you to inform any women you seek a relationship with that you are a dangerous bastard.

Unfortunately many women who’ve been stalked know that some men will regard you as theirs, and fair game even if you’ve consistently rejected them from day 1, so knowing that you should avoid him wouldn’t necessarily be enough, but it would allow you to take any threat seriously from moment 1.

wrappedupinmyselflikeaspool

You are right about Mumsnet as a platform. I have found that the relationships board is a brilliant source of clear advice and there are some awesome posters on there with a very clear idea of 'dangerousness' for women when they are leaving relationships which (as I know that you know) is so important. A lot of women so generously share their experiences on there.

This situation might be avoided in future by this man actually getting jailed for an appropriate length of time after murdering the first woman.

I do genuinely think this man will always be a danger to women. He has killed 3 women. He isn’t safe to ever be in the community again. Whether that means lifetime in prison or in some other facility I think that’s what needs to happen. He has had 3 chances to keep the women around him safe and has not only failed to do that but deliberately harmed and killed. 3 times. We shouldn’t be in the business of giving men who kill women more chances than that to be a decent member of society. The lives of women are more important than his freedom with the risk that holds.