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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Welsh AM permanently banned from speaking in Assembly for opposing GRA

15 replies

pisacake · 13/12/2017 21:56

Ruling:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/42340420/ukip-s-gareth-bennett-told-to-apologise-for-transgender-comments

"In reference in particular to deviation from the norm" "That member will not be called in this chamber in 2018 until he withdraws his remarks"

He said

“If we carry on down this road of appeasing the nuttiest elements of the transgender movement then what we will face as a society, within a very short space of time, is total implosion.”"

continuing

"There is only so much deviation from the norm that any society can take before that society completely implodes.""

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/am-banned-speaking-chamber-after-14034253

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WTAFisthisshit · 13/12/2017 22:12

Because shouting racist at people who had concerns about immigration was so effective at reducing UKIP's vote share. FFS.

Terrylene · 13/12/2017 22:14

Well, "deviation from the norm" is rather archaic and loaded and does not go down very well outside of, maybe, a paper on the statistical analysis of seaweed distribution, or some such.

The implosion is rather unspecific and dramatic.

He needs time out to think about what he said.

Thermostatpolice · 13/12/2017 22:25

I agree with your analysis of his comments Terrylene. He could have phrased his concern more clearly.

But the response is a huge overreaction. The people of South Wales Central could be left without elected representation for a whole year on the basis of mildly uncomfortable remarks about a legitimate concern.

pisacake · 13/12/2017 22:31

I don't think this chap is in all likelihood particularly charming, but he specifically referred to the "nuttiest elements of the transgender movement", rather than to transgender people as a whole.

And "deviation from the norm" may be referring to biological girls showering with boys and so on, rather than suggesting that transgender people are themselves deviant or whatever.

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WTAFisthisshit · 13/12/2017 22:39

He should be allowed to speak , if what he actually says is abusive and transphobic people will see that. If he's shut up and no other political party speaks out then UKIP gets to play the martyr card and once again they get to be the party of the people that no one is listening to. Surely all sane people are hoping that UKIP just quietly slip into oblivion at this point, not be given an opportunity to pick up all the votes of the disenfranchised? And if no main political party gets a sensible grip on this issue then that is at least 51% of votes.

pisacake · 13/12/2017 22:50

The speech is here

He starts with a general riff (which isn't particularly eloquent) on 'minority rights' imposing on the majority, before moving on to specifics:
{my transcript, more-or-less verbatim}

"We have a perfect example of this with the recent controversies over transgender rights. A Conservative government at Westminster is proposing some fairly wide-ranging increases to the rights of transgender people. This could mean that anyone who wishes to identify as being of a gender different to their physical gender may be able to do so simply by defining themselves as such. So we could have men entering women's public toilets because these men claim to define themselves as women. We could have male criminals demanding to be sent to women's prisons because they define themselves as women. We could end up with the girl guide movement having to accept men who define themselves as women as guide leaders because if the girl guide movement refuses to do this they may end up facing prosecution because they have somehow breached somebody's so-called human-rights. We are going to have a lot of fun with this over the next few years if we continue as a society with this kind of minority obsessed nonsense. What we need to do is have a grown up conversation about the issue of minority rights and accept that there have to be limits to them.

There is only so much deviation from the norm [boos from Assembly Members] that any society can take before that society completely implodes and if we carry on down this road of appeasing the nuttiest elements of the transgender movement then what we will face as a society within a very short space of time is total implosion.

Now having made this general observation that is not to say there is no good work in the field of human rights in Wales. There is some good work going on. But some of the concern that this report expresses is certainly in my view misplaced. [and continues on topic of prisoners voting]"

I think he is not very well informed about what has already happened in terms of transgender rights, but it seems clear that he is criticising the specific 'rights' (men's right to enter in women's spaces), rather than saying that transgender people are deviant in any way.

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Thermostatpolice · 13/12/2017 22:54

True WTAF. You put it much better.

ArcheryAnnie · 13/12/2017 23:32

I can't stand fucking UKIP and don't trust anything any of their representatives say as coming from any good place. I don't believe for a second that this UKIP asshole is a feminist, for example, or within a million miles of feminism.

On the other hand, I notice that nobody except us gave a shit when that Mermaids spokesperson Fox Fisher, a transman, called lesbians and gay men "deviant" (the NSPCC even has Fox Fisher on their website ffs).

Ereshkigal · 14/12/2017 18:13

Fox Fisher also applauded the doxing of feminist women recently on twitter.

WTAFisthisshit · 14/12/2017 18:39

Just googled fox fisher, that was a down the rabbit hole experience! Another travis?

BatShite · 14/12/2017 22:19

The 3 things he says 'we may' to...are already happening.

BatShite · 14/12/2017 22:19

we could even. Not we may Blush

BetsyM00 · 14/12/2017 23:31

I like that Neil Hamilton said "UKIP is a minority whose rights need to be protected as well" (as transgenders).

pisacake · 17/12/2017 18:21

The Assembly leader has said you can deny global warming (as Mr. Bennett did bennettukip.co.uk/public-sector-decarbonisation/), it's ok to say immigrants are dirty (as Mr Bennett did previously www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/ukip-candidate-accused-shocking-slur-11057253)

But object to transgender people in women's spaces, well that's a step too far, dissent will NOT be tolerated.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/42340420/ukip-s-gareth-bennett-told-to-apologise-for-transgender-comments

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pisacake · 17/12/2017 18:21

sorry wrong link. should be this:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-42368314

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