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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Yay! I've finally found my gender label

115 replies

QuentinSummers · 11/12/2017 18:55

AFAB non-binary femme apparently. Who's with me??!!
www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/d3x8m7/five-queer-people-on-what-femme-means-to-them

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 11/12/2017 20:17

am most certainly allowed to think you are dickheads for making fun, just as you are allowed to BE dickheads in the first place. There's about as much point in arguing about this as there would be trying to convince a Trump supporter they're wrong as well.

You are of course allowed to think what you like. But perhaps no one cares what you think about them and you maybe ought to have a little look at your priorities?

LangCleg · 11/12/2017 20:17

I am a queer cisgender woman, and my partner is AMAB (assigned male at birth), nonbinary, and trans femme.

Honestly, Panda. If you're going to describe your bog standard, heterosexual relationship like this, what do you expect?!

PencilsInSpace · 11/12/2017 20:18

'rude'

This is what really counts isn't it?

As we watch our rights and safety and dignity and privacy and freedom of speech disappear into the distance, as we watch our children being educated into rigid gender stereotypes, and watch the exponential rise in the number of kids, who have dared to step outside of those stereotypes, heading for the GIC and a future of puberty blockers, hormones, breast binding, surgery, osteoporosis, infertility and sexual dysfunction, as we lose the words to describe reality and the ability to organise against oppression that happens to us because we are part of a group that no longer has a name ... we must always remember what's important.

We mustn't be rude. We mustn't be mean. We must be nice.

Look where that's got us.

I think it's perfectly appropriate and preserving of sanity to laugh at the ludicrous insanity of this ideological clusterfuck from time to time.

AFAB agender ('a' as in 'atheist') transwoman. Pronouns: Me/Me/Me/Me/Me

Ereshkigal · 11/12/2017 20:19

It's such nonsense. You have a female and a male. I.e. a heterosexual relationship.

PricklyBall · 11/12/2017 20:22

Maybe panda really thinks she/he/ze/they/it/ladyglittersparkle is really an AFAB femme demi boi gender low-Reynolds-number furry otherkin frappucino latte with sprinkles person and thinks we're making fun of her/him/zir (oh fuck I can't be bothered) personally.

Slapdasherie · 11/12/2017 20:25

I use words that communicate what I need them to

Well, how very unique and special that makes you.

I’m pretty sure that’s usually known as talking. Prat.

museumum · 11/12/2017 20:30

Arghhhh!!!!!

It’s not making fun of PEOPLE outside the gender binary. It’s making fun of the idea that there is a gender binary!!!
There’s a sex binary. Gender is not binary for anyone.
HOW is that not obvious??

If most people think they don’t fit the binary then surely it’s bleeding obviously there is no binary.

Ereshkigal · 11/12/2017 20:31

I think it's perfectly appropriate and preserving of sanity to laugh at the ludicrous insanity of this ideological clusterfuck from time to time.

YY. Perhaps you'd like to articulate what you feel is so compelling about the idea of being "outside the gender binary", Panda.

Ereshkigal · 11/12/2017 20:32

And by that I mean how transactivists think of it.

QuentinSummers · 11/12/2017 20:36

It’s not making fun of PEOPLE outside the gender binary. It’s making fun of the idea that there is a gender binary!!!
Exactly! Thank you muse

OP posts:
slightlyglittermaned · 11/12/2017 20:36

You know what - I was expecting something way more exaggerated than that article. It doesn't read that weirdly to me - genuinely curious what we're seeing that's so different?

UnderTheDesk · 11/12/2017 20:38

The soft glitter core is the best bit.

My core is kind of matt, but as a gender fluid non-binary AFAB queer queer, I'm totally still all kinds of special.

BrandNewHouse · 11/12/2017 20:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nauticant · 11/12/2017 20:49

To borrow from Oscar Wilde, you'd need a heart of stone not to laugh out loud at the sheer self-obsession on display in that article.

The relentless performance involved in it all is mind-boggling.

AssassinatedBeauty · 11/12/2017 20:50

@slightlyglittermaned, one of the people in that article seems to call themselves Artemesia FemmeCock... and you don't think that's particularly unusual?

slightlyglittermaned · 11/12/2017 20:50

Okay @BrandNewHouse, have a crack at explaining it to me then. I haven't called anyone a Trump supporter, and am generally fairly sympathetic to concerns about the GRA etc. Still don't get what you're saying here.

slightlyglittermaned · 11/12/2017 20:56

Yes, I do find it "unusual" (and tbh, I'd say that particular one comes across as someone I'd find a bit too drama-llama for my tastes). But there are others that I find fairly unremarkable - some of the slang people are rolling eyes at has a specific meaning and history.

BrandNewHouse · 11/12/2017 21:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

slightlyglittermaned · 11/12/2017 21:05

Yes yes got that. And?

PricklyBall · 11/12/2017 21:08

My best stab at explaining this is that we all tell narratives and invent stories about ourselves to make our way through the world. When I was younger, I would have days when I couldn't be arsed and dressed in jeans and a t-shirt, and days when I felt like "performing femininity" (and it always did feel like a performance to me - I used to describe it as strings, smoke and mirrors). A young person nowadays might choose to conceptualise the same experiences as being "gender fluid" - the jeans and t-shirt days are "boy-mode", the "performing femininity" days are "girl-mode".

However, there is no real fact of the matter about being "gender fluid" - it's just a narrative to use as short hand to describe their feelings. It's the reification (to use a fancy philosopher's word) of gender I object to - the idea that gender, which is actually an oppressive political system used to keep women (and men - but in terms of sheer amount of damage, women primarily) in a restrictive set of boxes. It's not a real part of the natural world.

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 11/12/2017 21:08

Ok -I’ll give an example - Me! I “identify” as a woman. I was AFAB, I have female genitals, I have given birth, I happily call myself by a female name, I see myself as a woman, I AM a woman.

BUT - I wore a dress to dh’s Xmas Do on Friday night. It was the first time I had worn a dress or skirt in months. Normally I like to wear trousers as 1. My legs get cold. 2. I cycle to work and dresses are not very practical and 3. I hate the static feel of tights (and see 1 for not wearing tights).

I probably have more female friends than male friends but I work in a very male dominated profession doing a job that many instinctively think of as a “man’s job”. (By which I mean it pays well and involves hard sums and no caring whatsoever!)

I have worn make up less than 10times in 2017.

Sometimes when with extended family I like to hang out in the kitchen doing “womanly things” as described in the article. Sometimes I prefer to watch the sport with “the men”. It depends on the sport. And who is in the kitchen. And what is being cooked.

In fact with my extended family sometimes we are all watching the sport. With occasional shouts of “shit! The dinner!” When the smell of burning becomes impossible to ignore. Sometimes we all hang out in the (far too small) kitchen and chat.

I regularly shave my armpits. I shave my legs when I can be arsed. I have my bikini line done twice a year before holidays.

Does all that give me some fancy interesting title?

No! Of course not! It makes me a (not even particularly interesting - my main interests are Hard Sums, a few minority sports and gossip from Eastenders) woman. Just not one who fits exactly into a completely ridiculous stereotype as to what a “woman” is.

I remember doing Latin at school. The books were supposed to be set about 100 AD. We found it hilarious that Marcus and Sextus spent all their time climbing trees and fighting whilst Cornelia and Flavia sat under trees and occasionally sang softly. And yet we seem to have people who think that is exactly what men and woman are!

Nuffaluff · 11/12/2017 21:09

We are feminists on a feminist discussion board.
We are rolling our eyes at the idea that gender even exists. Let alone that there are umpteen different types of it.

catgirl1976 · 11/12/2017 21:13

I have identified as 26, stunningly attractive and dripping with money. It's fabulous. I also now have a unicorn.

You must all address me as 'Princess of the sand duney coast, mother of cats and Queen of the Starbucks queue'. If you don't it is literal violence.

This stuff makes me so angry. Women being erased and silenced whilst idiots clasp their hands and wank themselves off over the bravery

It's regressive, homophobic, misogynistic horseshit

Iggi999 · 11/12/2017 21:16

Ah Mumof that fair takes me back.. in pictura est puella Romanae (or something like that).
I digress.
We need to laugh at this stuff sometimes, if we didn’t laugh we’d just cry.

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 11/12/2017 21:18

Catgirl - that is all a bit of a mouthful. Can I not just call you PrincessSand for short?

Ps As a self proclaimed stunningly attractive 26 year old I think you should take up modelling. If they don’t immediately let you on the cover of Vogue (muttering something ridiculous about the wart on the end of your nose) then you can accuse them of hate crime! And explain that warts on noses are nobodies business but your own!

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