Interesting reading

[W8what]

Hi there,

I joined today as I don’t do social media and I’m really worried about the current stuff about possible changes to legislation.

So I’ve done my reading and found this

faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/JMichael-Bailey/TMWWBQ.pdf

Which was really interesting, not 100% on all of it but very interesting nonetheless, read Miranda Yardley’s blog (really insightful and straightforward for the novice). Some stuff by Anne Lawerence (also a transexual I believe)

www.annelawrence.com/autogynephilia_&_MtF_typology.html

I think I’m getting a better handle on why so many trans activists are getting so angry and trying to shut down the debate. It is starting to feel like they don’t want people to ask any questions because they may specifically start speaking about autogynephilia.
What was striking in Baileys book and in other places is how many non homosexual trans lie about their childhood experiences or neglect to mention the erotic component of their motivation. I saw this straw poll thing on reddit and so many transpeople admitted to not talking to their therapists about it.

Its kind of driving me a bit insane. I was so angry, like seriously f**cking angry about the idea of trying to lever open the definition of women so people who are biologically male can get access to female spaces in a some sort of self soothing effort. I feel like women are being forcibly co-opted into maintaining a few peoples delusions.

Gems like “sex is a social construct” (really? then why try to grow boobs or castrate yourself)

“Transwomen are women too”(no, really no)

“Transmisogyny” (wtf does that even mean?)

“Gender dysphoria shouldnt be in the DSMV cos its not a mental health issue”you think I am visitng violence on you and LITERALLY KILLING YOU if i misgender you or don’t let you into the bathroom aaaaand thats not a sign of mental instability?

“90% of women are autogynephiliacs y’know so we are just the same as other women” while simultaneously arguing autogynephilia doesnt actually exist and blanchard made it up cos he’s a perv(really, just no, terrible study been torn to shreds quite a few times yet people like julia serrano keep quoting it (medium.com/@mirandayardley/from-mosers-paper-which-shows-autogynephilia-in-93-of-women-9d9d16f147d2)

“Terfs have blood on their hands”(no that would be the blokes that ACTUALLY kill you -just wtf)

To be clear, I’m not on some mad crusade against trans people. I’ve read some really thoughtful pieces written by some trans people and I have nothing but admiration for the brutal honesty with whichthey write about a subject which must cause them pain. I doubt many people could claim to have looked at ourselves or our conditions with such searing honesty and neutrality as writers like Yardley and Lawerence. I think there are people for whom surgery really is the only option and will provide them some relief and it should be offered. I think no-one should be stigmatised just because of what they choose to wear or who they want to sleep with (consenting human adults obs)

I know plenty of people with mental illness so i get why so many trans people don’t like blanchards work and feel it paints them in a negative light or is stigmatising. But admitting there are atypical behaviours which are quite likely rooted in something other than “i feel like a woman” (mate i dont know what its like to feel like a woman and i am one) is not invalidating your existence. i ‘d like to see the schizophrencis try to get schizophrenia removed from the DSMV because they don’t like it. And it has been pointed out that often its not just about sexual fixation but an emotional and psychologicalattachment to a female self which drives the eed for surgery, so its not like there is no recognition of the complexity of gender dysphoria and autogy. I get people don’t want to be pathologised but it is what it is. I don’t think any worse of people if they have these kinks.

I’m also concerned about trans groups agitating for expedited treatment and for young children being started on hormones. Current treatment mandates a period of time before transition specifically so that those who may never pass well can get used to how society treats them before they do anything permanent and allows them to experience what life would be like(society is cruel and thats not ok). Its a safe guard not a restraint. And the children thing, i mean it doesnt even need to be said, they are bloody children.

I’ve been angry for a week and I’m bloody knackered. None of the articles I’ve read by people pushing for these changes mention biological women and their needs and concerns. None of these people seem to care about how a woman whos been raped/and beaten will feel when she finds out theres a bloke sitting next to her in the very place she goes to be helped and feel safe. Or the fact that little girls shouldnt be exposed to an adult male body in changing rooms. None of them seem to care that some people will take advantage to assualt women (its already happend in the usa soooo many times). Men don’t seem to give a shit either and I’m increasingly feeling like women saying no isn’t enough apparently. And no your prostate isn’t a women health issue! No punching a woman in the face is not any kind of debate.

This seems to be the only place (not social media) where you can actually say “this doesn’t seem right”and not get treated like a bigot.

By turning into a “identity issue”its become like mix between “you must treat me like insert you favourite opressed minority or i’ll batter you (i am actually a minority and i have never been convinced that i have a free pass to behave like an asshole cos of that) and “i’m not Threatening, i’m just a woman like you...look glittery eyeshadow, If you don’t agree my eyeshadow makes me a woman i’ll punch you”

I need to do some sort of scream therapy. I was actually planning to just post aaaargggghhhARRRRGHHHHHH

Hi there, bloody angry myself...

Just wondering how to channel it into something productive. Amidst the daily grind of working part time and looking after 4 kids!

Thank you for your post, OP. I don’t post a lot on MN, but I have been reading the Feminist boards on this issue every day for weeks. To say I am deeply concerned about all this would be an understatement.

A minority ideology with NO foundation in science or evidence of any credible kind, and yet with massive ramifications for the whole of society, is being implemented by stealth, intimidation and gaslighting.

Public debate and free speech are being killed off in the name of not offending people. What’s the next thing that will be forced upon us that we can’t talk about?

Argh I’m an expat so i can’t even write to an MP! Sorry yes its not considered a mental illness.

I think the problem is that many people think of it in terms of being nice to a marginalised group rather than the consequences for women. Most of them will never heard of “ the cotton ceiling” (puke) or the sex is a biological construct etc. And i totally get it, I used to be in the “let them in you bigots”group. Mumsnet changed my mind, and then I read what transactivists were doing and actually saying and I hit the roof.

I think also I was thinking of the transsexuals I had come across who basically got on with their own thing and weren’t bothering anyone, I used to be worried for them (like get home before the pubs get busy). And I imagine most of them just want to be left alone to get on with it.

I’m in favour of unisex spaces for people, It seems like a reasonable solution. I guess also the full implications are not being discussed either in public, as pointed out so many times its about resource allocation, skewing the stats, being able to actually say no to someone on the basis of sex, like in caring situations and clinical settings etc.

At the crux of it its a question of whther transexuals are men or women. I mean even though I was initially in favour of people being able to identify as what they want (i think the prison thing changed my mind quick time, i didn’t really believe people would actually do that!) i never really believed they were men if FTM or women MTF. I think I saw it is “aww bless leave them alone”. Now i see it as “oh dear god stop harrassing women and let them bloody speak”.

I kind of assumed the media would run with the fact that women are being punched in the face etc. Maybe when the a vote is closer there will be more clarity around this and more public debate. Maybe best thing to do is get ducks in a row for clarity over what our objections actually are and that they are grounded in actual substantive issues. And not based on bigotry. I get so frustrated that I end up speaking more harshly than I mean to about this.

I had a good response from my MP when I wrote, on the back of what I have read on MN, my own research and my own personal experience. I don’t think he had previously considered what self -identification will lead to in terms of women’s rights, nor that we are heading down a road where ideology trumps science.

The more we women roar about it on social media the more our voices will be heard.

Join Twitter, comment on the articles The Times are running, make your voice heard.

All the above can be done in the evening whilst watching TV.

@stop - I’m glad your MP seems to be listening. You are exactly right, I thought we were supposed to value facts. Hopefully other MP’s will be more responsive once they actually start paying attention to it.

@busy - oh dear god, i had hoped to avoid any social media for the rest of my life but I am actually going to have to join twitter. Arggh ffs. But you are right, the least I can do is show support for all those women and men sticking their head above the parapet.

Stop, that's brilliant, but do you think he will be brave enough to actually make his view public, or is he, like many women too afraid of the tims to stand up to them?

Good post op.
The anger is common as a response when you start looking into this stuff more, it goes away eventually. You end up just rolling your eyes. I think it's great tgat it's being reported in the mainstream now.
Reddit peak trans thread is worth a read I think

Lol oh yeah i love reddit gender critical, they are great on there. Clear thinking and eye rolling all around LOL!! I think I’ve calmed down, my husband agrees with me but I think because it doesn’t affect him as directly he doesn’t get as angry as I do. I don’t really have anyone to talk to about this who shares the level of frustration I experience with this.

I went on reddit asktrans to see how people felt about autogy and it was really interesting (purely from an “oh wow didn’t realise this was a thing” perspective rather than in the context of legislation change). Its interesting how many people denied autogy existed while there were so many threads populated by people who were experiencing it. I guess so,e will genuinely not experience it if they are homosexual.

I wonder if half the problem is how awful and shamed people feel about discussing the roots of this dysphoria (assuming blanchard is right and I’m open minded about this). Because if he is right, some are gay men seeking straight men and some are hetrosexual men who have an erotic and emotional need that is met by becoming a “woman”. Either way both broad types are still men and both are motivated to a significant degree by sex (as in the verb) rather than a feeling eyeroll of womanhood. You probably wouldn’t want someone like blanchard speaking in public.

I imagine if people discussed blanchards theory publicly many would feel like they are being described as if they were perverts (which would actually be quite horrible). The homosexual ones would most likely feel like they are being discussed as men trying to trick straight men and the non-homosexual ones would look like there was something wrong with them (some of the descriptions of peoples behaviour in “the man who would be queen” did make me go but I’m a prude so...). What i find weird though is if I were an autogyn i honestly wouldn’t want to draw anyones attention to it and raising the debate as loudly as many have just increases the risk of people talking about it. Having said that they have spent some time trying to destroy the careers of zucker and blanchard so maybe they figured they could try to descredit some f the few people who have spent a good portion of their lives investigating and studying the condition and then walk unopposed into female spaces.

mirandayardley.com/en/a-history-of-autogynephilia/

Good short informative article by Miranda Yardley