What do you think is going to happen with regards to the GRA?

[PlateSpinnin]

I can't pretend I haven't lost quite a bit of sleep over this and I'm actively trying to take time away from it, in amongst badgering my MP and writing to the Guardian and the WEP and all the important stuff.

What do you actually think is going to happen? They were trying to just slip it through under the radar, weren't they, but recent press coverage has obviously scuppered that.

Anyone got a crystal ball that can give me some hope or even just a really really good hunch as to how this shit show is going to end?

I'm very concerned about a lot of whats happening worldwide; Russian interference, post modernism, post truth, and the erosion of womens rights in the West.
As far as I am concerned, the GRA should be for people who have an intersex disorder. I doubt many people would object to a change in the law to assist them.
It should not be available to anyone who has a conviction for a sex offense or a violent offense.
Womens rights, facilities and services need to be protected.
But if the Govt wanted a common sense approach they would already have done all those things. And they haven't.

Changes in the Equality Act effectively give men protection as if the GRA was in place;
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/7

''A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.''

I fear this will end with women losing a lot of rights including the legal right to talk about whats happening.

Well first of all Scotland is going to vote this in before Westminster does and since the SNP have already made up their mind it would take a miracle to stop it. Once that happens either Westminster will follow suit because it was no problem in Scotland OR Scotland will start issuing GRC certificates through self identification and Westminster will agree to accept them. Everyone who wants to self identify in other parts of the UK will then apply online through the Scottish govt website. Done deal.

This is the link to the Scottish government consultation on the GRA. Please fill it in, you don’t have to love in Scotland.

www.gov.scot/Publications/2017/11/5459

Sorry this is the correct link.
consult.gov.scot/family-law/review-of-the-gender-recognition-act-2004/

And of course the typo above should be live not love!

I think if you had a vote tomorrow, the bill would get through. It seems to be supported by all parties, and it's quite clear that most MPs are parroting the line of "we support the rights of transgender people" without actually engaging their brains.

However, politicians being what they are, once they realise that a lot of people are unhappy with the proposals, they might get cold feet. They set a lot of store by what papers like the Mail and the Times say, and it's quite obvious when you look at comments on articles by people like Janice Turner, that huge numbers of people feel uneasy about this.

I'm not a fan of Rod Liddle, but he wrote a piece for the Sunday Times about going on Question Time and finding himself in agreement with Val McDermid, plus the other members of the panel, plus the vast majority of the audience - admittedly this was to do with the issue of drugging children, but I think it reflects a general unease with the TRA agenda.

Really interesting replies, thanks. I think perhaps I've been a bit naive/optimistic. I've felt as though the tide was turning and that the will get through, but with specific clauses to protect sex segregated spaces and jobs. Sex will still be a protected class, won't it, with gender identity an addition rather than instead of. I really can't see anyone outside of universities and FE colleges really buying it. I also wonder how it will be received by groups community such as the Muslim community.

Plate, what I don't understand is how sex can remain a protected characteristic if this goes through. To use the bathroom example yet again - if i say to HR we must have sex segregated toilets or you're discriminating against me on grounds of my sex, how does that relate to a man who is IDing as a woman today?

You're absolutely right but I'm holding out some hope that maybe the penny will drop that sex isn't gender and so the GRA won't allow people who hold the certificate to use those areas. This will mean that there will have to be neutral spaces for those individuals so as not to compromise the protected characteristics of sex.

Protection for sex, religion and sexual orientation are all erased if trans is a protected characteristic.
Also, many disabled people just wont understand why they can see a man in the womens toilet or hospital ward.

100% agree with silly, it’s quite possible SNP will push this through in Scotland first. In fact I’m pretty sure one of the questions was about whether someone should have to be resident in Scotland in order to apply for self id certificate! So you can see how people outwith Scotland could (& would) use that loop hole.
I met with my MSP this week and she reckoned it’s about a year till they are at stage of taking a vote. She couldn’t tell me if it would be a free vote or not. It’s therefore essential to get the word out NOW before it’s too late, and for everyone to fill in the consultation paperwork even if you don’t live in Scotland. Given how much Nicola Sturgeon and Theresa May seem to hate each other it would give the SNP the perfect opportunity to change something which would impact the whole of the UK

Thank you for that link to the public consolation silly that's really useful. I've filled it out and would encourage everyone else to do so- you don't have to live in Scotland to give them your view.

Thank you mot mot.

Yes I've done the consultation. I wonder if it's that important should we put it somewhere with lots of traffic?