Calling Irish posters - was there the same debate before the GRA 2015?

[GingerAndTheBiscuits]

I’ve been pointed in the direction of this tweet following some debate about the Madigan situation/ the GR bill in genera tonightl:

twitter.com/christineburns/status/932376223640154114

Can anyone recall if there was similar debate in Ireland upon the introduction of this legislation and if not, any ideas why that might have been? Also interested in any identified implications of self-Identification 2 years post implementation?

I think the undercurrent of those articles is "trans people use disabled toilets until they can "pass" at which stage they use the toilets of the gender they are presenting as" - which presumes they are (a) transitioning and (b) trying to pass.

Which is all very well until you get into the gender neutral bollocks. There is a boards.ie thread about Jonathan Rachel Clynch which is mostly saying wtf?

QuarksandLeptons

No, I hadn't seen any trans connection to the repeal the 8th movement, wow, I'm really shocked by that, i need to look into to it more

I was involved in a very heated discussion on www.rollercoaster.ie last week (the thread is called Caitlin Jenner on the Late Late) there's a fairly even split of WTF and people who've drank the cool aid. It's worth a look to see the level big confusion and misinformation out there.

It's on the 'Chit Chat and Trivia' board BTW

quarks I know exactly who you're talking about, there are a couple of very nasty characters shoving themselves to the centre of the pro-choice movement and making it about them. And the clueless young women fawning over them don't get it at all. I agree with a pp about Ireland being in its infancy re human rights. Sometimes it seems we've swapped one kind of regressive dogma for another.

I've just read that Rollercoaster thread and recognise arguments from here (well made) together with a lot of misreading of those arguments and a fair bit of leaping to conclusions.

Tipping point for me was Caitlyn Jenner winning some woman of the year award - firstly what does she (I have no issue in calling her she, or her name by the way) know about being a woman and what has she done to be "woman of the year" and secondly her acceptance speech said something about the hardest thing about being a woman was clothes/makeup/high heels - thus showing complete ignorance of the reality of life as a woman. Twat.

www.eventbrite.ie/e/femfest-2017-tickets-39449789382

Femfest, an event for young women. With added shite about preferred pronouns, gender neutral toilets and a speaker from the Trans Equality Network. Just fuck off. What has any of that got to do with young women and their issues?

Vanessa Lacey is a fully transitioned "trans-sexual" according to the old-fashioned definition of the word. I wonder how she feels about all the "don't bother transitioning, just feel it" crap.

Dil Wickremasinghe has an interesting background. She is a feminist and a lesbian who has faced a lot of discrimination because of her sexuality I'm interested in how (if at all) gender critical she is.

I don't think "transwomen are women" dogma has hit here yet; we are still at the "the boys won't let them play, so us nice girls will let them tag along with our gang" mentality.

I wonder if transmen are excluded from such a conference? Because at the moment young girls identifying as male are in need of a lot of support, I would have thought, but they are falling through the cracks of "women's groups" and I haven't seen many men's groups trying to offer them anything

I still don't think Vanessa, after over 40 years as a man, has any business giving a keynote speech at a feminist conference for young girls/women. Nor do I think that sense of entitlement would have been there 10 or 20 years ago.

I've encountered several young "transmen", they are centring themselves in the pro-choice movement, demanding we say "pregnant people" and sonon. One addressed the last Repeal march, with a long poem likening people misgendering her, sorry, him with the Tuam babies scandal and other Irish injustices, it was a bit hard to take tbh. Really, we're getting it on both sides unfortunately.

I'd be interested in Dil's take on it.

I agree absolutely cuirderussie, it's ridiculous. There are some wonderful young (and old) role models in the Irish women's movements over the years, any one of whom would have been more relevant.

Yes Maryz, the older feminists are being sidelined if they don't drink the kool aid. I saw a 50something woman who'd campaigned against the 8th amendment in 1983, someone who had stood on street corners of conservative small towns and fought that battle firsthand - being told by a bunch of kids she was a "fucking terf" and a "transphobe" for objecting to "pregnant people" and all that nonsense. It was depressing. Meanwhile they fawn over the "brave and stunning" types who manage to make the fight for female reproductive rights about them and their right to take hormones cos obviously it's the same thing.

morningrunner yes it's interesting how quickly the "awakening" has happened in the UK, I've followed the debate for about 2 years now and there is far more openness and critical thinking.