Paris Lees - again

[QuentinSummers]

Paris has written an article about media discrimination against trans. In it she says
I could name 50 more problems that arose from going through this traumatic and entirely avoidable male puberty. Forcing kids like me to go through that is just cruel.

I don't understand this inability to do a proper "what if?" analysis of this. I wrote this on another thread to a TW (who strangely didn't reply )

Neurological development is surging during teenage years, we don't know what effect hormones will have on that but are likely to be very influential.
Synthetic hormones are known to have an adverse long term effect on libido from research in women on the pill.
Puberty blockers/cross sex hormones stop genital development and so it stands to reason also hinder ability to orgasm/sex drive.
Withdrawal of female sex hormones from the female body can cause all kinds of distressing symptoms such as osteoporosis, vaginal atrophy and dryness. That's why many post menopausal women take HRT.
I can see that to an adult who transitioned post puberty likes the idea they can be the way they are (adult cognitive ability, adult libido and sex drive) but pass better due to not going through puberty. But I don't think that's achievable and it's hugely harmful to trans identifying children to suggest that it is.

Does Paris seriously want to trade her libido, functioning genitalia that enables orgasm and adult cognitive ability for a body that looks feminised without expensive procedures?

Is she delusional?

Or is she being disingenuous in the pursuit of trans politics and not thinking about the damaged children adopting her views could create? I don't understand it.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/global/commentisfree/2017/nov/17/trans-people-children-suicide-bullying-rightwing-media

Children swing wildly growing up my dd went from despising her changing body embracing it then finally cussing about it and accepting it anyone listening to her at some points would have thought she was trans she isn't she was just growing up vocally it would have caused serious harm if she was put on medication just "because she might be trans" what is wrong with children growing up then making the decision

The only way they can justify the use of dangerous puberty blockers is by saying that compared to suicide, they are safe. (much as compared to pregnancy, the pill is safe, or compared to X disease, X vaccination is safe).

And yet they haven't substantiated these suicide claims at all, and in any other circumstance, you'd treat the suicidal thoughts before you did anything for cosmetic reasons. It's all smoke and mirrors - very dangerous smoke and mirrors.

Chemically castrating children - what could possibly go wrong?

Not going through female puberty doesn't make a child male. A male child not going through male puberty is no closer to being female as a male child who goes through puberty.

When children take puberty blockers, they end up being 16/17/18 year olds with prepubescent bodies. Who would want that?

It's no better than the castration of children that has been done through history at times for a number of children - eunuchs, castrati singers...
Idiots who think supporting it puts them on the 'right side of history' are being staggeringly stupid.

That should read, 'for a number of reasons.'

I often wonder how doctors are supposed to handle this, especially GPs who are gatekeepers to referrals. It has been almost four years since I practiced (and I wasn't a GP) but I would have seriously struggled with referring a child to what I know to be serious and physically damaging treatment.

This is all happening on the back of very vocal, unqualified people screaming louder and shouting down professionals into submission with the use of the words "bigot" and "right side of history".

It is incredibly disturbing.

As always, I'm struck by adult males being interested in meddling with the sexual development of children.

It really angers me when people comment on these drugs when they've never taken them. I'm appalled over and over again to see them spoken about as it harmless, or safer than leaving a body to develop normally due to the risk of suicidal thoughts.

These children are being fed lies. Absolute lies. This is nothing like supplementing your body with different hormones - preventing the body from producing sex hormones is an extreme treatment and the risks of longterm problems so much more of a concern than the alternative.

I wonder if these people truly know what it's like to live for years with no sex drive whatsoever - as in, repulsed by the thought of physical contact, or to have mood swings so severe you're basically a different person. Or to become so unwell you can't hold down any job. To have longterm debilitating health issues that are not only incurable, but which no one cares to research.

I've said it over and over again on these boards but if I said it to trans people I'd be called a bigot. Nope, I'm just very concerned about these children as anyone who's been on these drugs and experienced these issues would be.

If my sons told me they wanted to transition, they'd be getting support for any related depression / suicidal feelings until they're old enough to decide for themselves. The last thing o would ever do is give them a drug that's likely to destroy their life as they almost destroyed mine as a grown adult.

This person has no right to comment. Maybe they should speak to the thousands of women and men struggling for years after short courses of this drug and see how suitable they think it is for developing children.

I would be horrified if any of my children wanted to transition. They are all perfect as they are, I can't stand the thought of them becoming permanent medical patients or surgically altering their bodies. Or choosing to sterilise themselves.
I do see it very similar to anorexia.

Completely agree quentin re similarities to anorexia.
The idea of one of my kids being trans scares me. One of them is not exactly gender typical but has a similar older sibling and I’m hoping that’s enough to show them that they don’t have to match the stereotypes, they can just be themselves
I remember making a point of trying to be different to everyone else at school because I didn’t want to be the same as everyone else. Whatever happened to being an individual? Why does everyone have to match?
tammy I’ve read a few of your posts and they have taught me so much, about the real risks of puberty blockers. I’m meeting with my MSP next week and I will talk to her about this as i feel it’s one of the big things which people are just blindly accepting without questioning the evidence. The truth is there is no long term data to show these drugs are safe, especially for kids, and in fact there is growing evidence of the harm they do. I’m sure what you have written will resonate with lots of people lurking on here too

As always, I'm struck by adult males being interested in meddling with the sexual development of children.

Yes this side of it has really started to bother me too. In the past day actually and I can't get it out of my head. DH knows all about Mermaids and stuff and when I told him that children in need were funding Mermaids, he answered 'so children in need are funding pedos?' . I was quite taken aback with this and asked what he meant by that, and he said it had been troubling him for a while, why any group would advocate for keeping children prepubescent in adulthood. He then brought up the government (and general public in some cases) support of PIE to show how it was not totally ridiculous that the government could be fooled by a group of paedophiles. And its been going round and round in my head ever since and its making me a little uneasy to be quite honest.

It does seem to be primarily adult male people pushing for the transing of kids. I know mermaids leader is female, but this does not really change the fact that a lot of this thing could very well be driven by paedophiles :S

I know mermaids leader is female (and seems to be for transing kids because her child is apparently trans), but this does not really change the fact that a lot of this thing could very well be driven by paedophiles :S

Not saying females cannot be paedophiles. just that I don't think thats likely to be Suzie Greens angle in this. I think she maybe comes from a good place, though is clearly wrong and is basically pretty abusive (IMO) also for taking her kid abroad for surgeries underage.

The comments on the Paris article are great. People just aren't buying it. And, for once, the Guardian doesn't seem to have censored anyone not towing the TRA line.

according to newspapers that don’t appear to employ a single trans journalist and fail to report on suicide stats for trans youth.

This is surely a call to arms for the only paper willing to report accurately on these matters. Time for the times to do a piece on how the suicide stats bandied around by people like Paris are demonstrably manipulated.

Maybe they can employ Miranda Yardley or their partner too.

The comments on the Paris article are great. People just aren't buying it. And, for once, the Guardian doesn't seem to have censored anyone not towing the TRA line.

All I can see in the comments is endless 'This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.' which I assume, as usual, means gender critical Along with a lot of 'go paris' rubbish and a very few critical comments

These are the top 2 comments that I can see.

Due to the Jazz Jennings debacle, I know what happens when you take puberty blockers, followed by cross sex hormones.

Sterility, sexual performance utterly compromised and not enough material to create a neo vagina.

I’m assuming the same sort of thing happens for girls? They don’t develop in the genital region? I know very, very few have genital surgery, because it is fairly unsuccessful.

Even if someone had crushing gender dysphoria, I’m not sure how you can reconcile yourself to the fact of sterility, no libido, and on lifelong medication.

It’s one thing, when you are an adult, both in terms of your own agency, but also that your sexual function isn’t compromised.

"As always, I'm struck by adult males being interested in meddling with the sexual development of children."

My thoughts exactly. I also think the Travis person who caused the Topshop debacle is someone trying to normalize paedophilia. It's very sad that the people in power can't see it.

I e been arguing with people on Twitter about this. One sent me an article about a ‘male’ pregnant person as ‘proof’ that hormones didn’t affect fertility. When I pointed out that anyone who was able to conceive had obviously gone through puberty, they just starting calling me a terf. The other one said that blockers have no effect on libido because their libido was fine. Looking at their photo, it’s clear they are someone who went through male puberty.

It’s like arguing with people who only have a limited grasp of English

Yes this side of it has really started to bother me too. In the past day actually and I can't get it out of my head. DH knows all about Mermaids and stuff and when I told him that children in need were funding Mermaids, he answered 'so children in need are funding pedos?' hmm. I was quite taken aback with this and asked what he meant by that, and he said it had been troubling him for a while, why any group would advocate for keeping children prepubescent in adulthood. He then brought up the government (and general public in some cases) support of PIE to show how it was not totally ridiculous that the government could be fooled by a group of paedophiles. And its been going round and round in my head ever since and its making me a little uneasy to be quite honest.

I was literally just struck by that thought, that there are some sick people that are going to see an advantage in teenagers who are above the age of consent but have the bodies of prepubescent children - essentials giving paedophiles a way to get off without breaking the law. Very disturbing.

Regrettably so many of the tactics used by transactivist groups and some individuals mirror the behaviour used by paedophiles when grooming children. I am NOT suggesting that transactivists are paedophiles, but because this group have been enabled to lobby and operate without any restrictions, they have completely failed to appreciate the normal boundaries that all other groups working with children/ schools have to use. Their boundaries are hopelessly compromised and it is this that makes them such a risk when working with children.
Examples include:

Using online to directly access children - inviting private messages on twitter and instagram
Alienating children from their parents (even enshrining this in 'guidance')
Suggesting that parents who don't agree with their children being transgender might have their children removed
Positioning themselves in positions of power so that no one dares to challenge their behaviour, even when it is abusive
Private mentoring of children by adults with no qualifications, just their own lifestyle to promote.

Gaslighting - creating a false reality - 'transgender women are women - no debate' , 'the effects of puberty blockers are reversible' and then reacting with fury if anyone challenges etc etc.

I cannot believe that those responsible for child welfare have not spotted these tactics as we know that this is how paedophiles operate. These tactics are a disaster for the majority of transgender people who just want to live their lives in peace and who would have no truck with any abuse of children.

It’s the blurring of lines between what constitutes consent.

11-year-olds going on puberty blockers. Because they are trans?

As someone said, it’s like insisting that your cat is vegan.

It allows this sort of thing (link below) to be acceptable.

“If your parents don’t agree, get new parents”.