Sons whose lives are facilitated by their mothers - how to prevent it?

[fluffyhamster]

I don't want to derail the other thread, so thought I'd start a different one...
I can't help feeling that the problem with men who expect to have their lives 'facilitated' by women starts at an early age, and as a direct result of the way in which their mothers bring them up, and what is expected from them as they grow up.

I have to hang my head in complete shame here as I have come to the horrifying realisation that I AM GUILTY of this!

Not sure where it all went wrong, but it's a familiar tale - I used to have a high-powered job/ earn the same or more than DH, but then had to scale back when the kids were young to fit in with school responsibilities. Never got 'back into' work as I was then called upon to look after an elderly parent. I therefore fell into the trap I had always told myself to avoid, and made full-time parenting my 'life's work.'

I have two teenage sons, and I am embarrassed to admit that I let them get away without doing cooking/washing/cleaning around the house.
I completely 'facilitate' their lives, by making sure sports kits are clean and lifts are given, food is provided etc.

I am totally and utterly taken for granted .

But I don't know how to change it - I've left it too late for a complete regime change - and they have GCSEs/A levels this year anyway, so now is not the right time to start demanding they do all their own washing, for example.

I have failed utterly. And here's me thinking I was a feminist!

Poor boys are getting a rough time. Girls can be just as bad - in our family’s case worse. For us it’s the younger ones who like to do less because older siblings ( girls and boys) did more for them and undermined us.
We’ve never split tasks into girls/boys or mother/father consciously but it works out that way. My husband rarely cooks but he does always bring logs in, clears gutters, does pest control, washes up, hoovers.

I think that part of parenting is teaching your dc how to behave as adults and that includes being able to run a house and look after themselves.

I don’t think it has anything to do with whether the mum works or not as all of us are parents regardless of anything else we may do.

My dc have always been involved in the running of the house from a young age. It started with setting and clearing the table as well as polishing and tidying up. Now they are both at secondary we have a rota that all of us follow.

They cook once a week each, my dh is also learning to cook rather than simply putting a pizza in the oven! We plan our meals on a Sunday and I make sure the ingredients are there for them. They know how to cook meals from scratch and how to use the oven and hob safely.

DS is responsible for the putting rubbish out and dd will bring all the bins around the house down for him. He also empties dishwasher every morning.

Dd strips the beds and remakes them each week, and DS frequently does it with her. Both dc know how to use the washing machine and hang washing out. I read once that if dc can use a smart phone etc, they can easily use a washing machine!

To start with it is hard work as I am sure it would be quicker and calmer to do it yourself but the effort will eventually pay off. They are now happy to help whenever asked and do see it as a team effort.

At that age you can sit them down and tell them why they are now going to be helping out.
Point out that last thread. Point out that learning to be a self sufficient adult is hugely important, both when they live independently and when they eventually cohabit with a partner.
Point out that women find nothing less attractive than a man child. I remember having to explain how laundry worked to a frightfully nice looking young man in my first week of uni (a million years ago.) mummy has done it all for him and he was about to put his brand new white shirts in with his brand new blue towels... nice lad, thankful for the help, but we left that encounter with me putting him and thinking he was a bit pathetic. I’m sure your sons don’t want that.

Then get them doing stuff. They will need to do chores and work/study when they leave Home - half an hour of housework help a day isnt going to fail exams for them.

But above all talk to them.

I have a super tidy DP who was brought up by a SAHM. I am trying to get the dc to do more - eg clear plates, lay table, put away washing, take out recycling but he will often do it for them as it's quicker!

There was a report today that said more men are moving back home (boomerang children) because they can’t afford to leave on their own at the age of 25-30+ compared to women of similar age.
The First thing that came to mind was the fact that these men are the group who are mostly facilitated. Before, they would move from one facilitator (mother) to the next (wife). Making their early working life easier. Now they don’t have that spring board to rely on. If more women their age are getting married later than before, it will mean that staying with mum and dad after university before that time arrive is more practical and beneficial to them compared to their female counterpart.

Also, the fact that women tend to earn a lot more than men before the age of thirty would be a good point. The possibility that women will be more financially capable. Women being more focused and working harder before the baby kicks in, before they start to facilitate the men and take on most of the parenting roles. (Of course not everyone is like this)

What fascinates me is the amount of people who complain about their sons on Mn during and right after freshers week about young men In regards to money management. One of the most interesting responses I ever read on one of them was the girlfriends or female friends will be the default group to help with food. And the mother should sort their son out. The burden should not be placed on another female they will encounter at university.

So should we be teaching our daughters to be more selfish (not my problem mate!) or our sons that incompetence isn't rewarded?
I sometimes charge my DS a 'finders fee' if I find something (eg school jumper) that he hasn't looked for properly before yelling 'Mum'.

Shamelessly placemarking. I have three sons!

I do this to ds he's 4- dd 5 mothers him to death! I pity his wife! He is incredibly kind though so hopefully it will balance (she says hopefully )

Despite having an 8 year old son with ADHD, it is my 6 year old daughter that I find causes the most house work. We’ve recently had a long conversation about how every time she leaves clothes unfolded or toys on the bedroom floor what she’s really saying is “i’m going to leave that for someone else to do”. I explained that in our house we had a team “TeamWinker” and that she was an important part of the team. Being part of the team means looking after yourself like a “big girl/grown up”. Since explaining that everything she DOESN’T do means that me or her Dad has to do it ( and that means less time for cuddles/story time has been like a light bulb moment. She takes pride in being “ like a grown up” and part of our team. I do struggle with adding more age appropriate chores as they grow but they definitely know that they should reduce the household load, not add to it! So far both older kiddo’s make their own beds in the morning, fold uniform/pjs etc., make sure dirty clothes are in the laundry bin, set table, clear plates. I will start adding in the daily sink clean after toothbrushing and anything else suggested on the thread that looks doable. Both also very interested in cooking but too young to be solo in the kitchen. P.S. son is not exempted from the above bit seems to have a more ordered mind and likes a “place for everything” -probably to aid the mad rush in which he lives his life! Love this thread and am blessed to have a partner that has never expected to be picked up after- I have a lot to thank my mil ( and fil who woke us up every saturday morning completely uncaring of our student-era hangovers, vacuuming the stairs and landing despite his full time job and sahm wife) for. Example needs to come from both parents. My team-work speech would ring hollow if DH was somehow exempt and he works an average of 60hrs a week.

Not leave but live.

So should we be teaching our daughters to be more selfish (not my problem mate!) or our sons that incompetence isn't rewarded?

A bit of both. I like to think that all adults are capable of being willing & positive members of whichever group they're in (family, work, sport etc), or at the very least a grudging and equal contributor. But I also think we need to teach not putting up with the bullshit.

It doesn't have to be mean/nasty to tell someone they need to do something or shape up etc. We need to teach people how to just say "OK, that wasn't good. Instead you could do this" without making it some huge guilt trip. We also need to teach people to accept those kinds of comments without flying off the handle because they feel bad about it. There are ways to have these discussions without them being big emotional traumas, but they have to be taught and learnt from quite an early age.

As for exam stress:

I did a lot of housework + care for my very young sibling + translation work for my mum in our new country in my senior school years. I still managed to Dux my college and do various afterscool credits. In fact, save for the sibling it was the same since I was 8. And I have ASD and don't think of myself as any kind of superheroine for having accomplished that.

So I'm pretty damn sure that your NT sons can manage just fine. Tough love is the best kind here.

Good advice, Anatidae. But I wouldn't even phrase it as "helping out" because that still implies it's really mum's work essentially. I'd call it "doing ur share". Also, DO NOT do the work for them if they skimp out. If they didn't do the dishes or wash clothes they were expected to - leave them dirty.

I don’t think it has anything to do with whether the mum works or not

I think it does. That’s not a reason not to be a SAHM or a criticism of SAHMs by the way.

However, of course there is going to be an effect if the model in your house is that one person (a woman) is in charge of domestic affairs and the other (a man) is not.

I think the sahm thing is relevant, not only because children are seeing women do more domestic work than men, but also because in families where both parents work, it is physically impossible to maintain the house without everyone doing their bit, but having a sahp means that one person has time so gets the work by default. Sometimes you just get into such a routine it is easier to do it yourself than allow other family members to do it badly, so it needs re doing

Just teach your kids to muck in from a young age regardless of sex, it's not rocket science. There are no gender roles in my house as I'm a lone parent, I think that probably makes it easier though. It's just a matter of X Y and Z need doing, you do X and I'll do Y and Z. It's not optional in my house, I don't have to 'try' to get my ds to do anything, it's just a given that he has to, 9 years in and not a day goes by where he doesn't ask what needs doing and more importantly he's happy to. No nagging, no grumbling, it's just how things are because they always have been. Start as you mean to go on is my advice.