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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transgender women criticise reform - Times article

46 replies

SecretHandshake · 06/11/2017 01:04

“It used to be fun being a tranny but people have lost their sense of humour. All you get is this moaning and whining. We’re caught in a right mess.”

Miranda Yardley is joking, but she is deadly serious in her opposition to government plans to revolutionise the very definition of male and female.

At some point in the coming days or weeks, the government will publish its consultation on the Gender Recognition Act. Instead of having to obtain a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, (the condition in which you feel you do not belong in your biological sex), demonstrating that you have lived in your chosen gender for at least two years and providing evidence to an expert panel, people would be allowed to change their legal gender by simply declaring it themselves, under government proposals to speed up the process.

Justine Greening, the equalities minister, has hailed the move as “the next step forward” in advancing transgender rights.

Ms Yardley, a transgender activist, is one of a growing number of critics who are horrified by the lack of thought ministers appear to have given to the consequences of such a move.

She argues that the “deeply regressive” legislation will not only do little to tackle discrimination faced by transsexuals like herself, it would also render women unable to challenge opportunistic men who use it in bad faith to gain access to areas such as refuges, fitting-rooms and support groups for survivors of sexual abuse.

“It’s taking away rights from women to give to men. It is utterly perverse,” said Ms Yardley, 50, an accountant from Essex, who was born male, and underwent gender reassignment almost ten years ago. She defines herself as transsexual, never as a woman, “out of respect to women. I’m not trying to lay any claim to being a woman. I have not had the same life.”

At a meeting in the Houses of Parliament last week, Ms Yardley joined a broad cross-section of clinicians, parents, therapists, academics and gay rights and women’s groups, all united in their frustration at being unable to debate any transgender policy — such as questioning the wisdom of giving children life-changing treatment for conditions that are still not properly understood, or asking how self-declaration might skew female crime statistics — without being shouted down by a small, militant lobby of transgender activists. Legitimate scrutiny, they warned, was being silenced by a single word: “transphobe”.

“Have you seen my Twitter? It’s a bloodbath,” Ms Yardley said. Using the female pronoun is one thing, she says; feeling entitled to hijack womanhood on a whim, at the expense of other people’s rights, is quite another. “We’re being told that a trans woman is a woman. No debate. It’s almost like a cult. Obey the rules of the cult, enforce the rules and anyone who disagrees is kicked out.

“Never in the history of the black civil rights movement, or the lesbian and gay movement, did black people demand to be called white, or lesbians or gay men demand to be called heterosexual. Trans equality shouldn’t come at the expense of equity. Sometimes the most unfair thing to do is to treat everybody equally.”

Critics say that changing the law to protect transgender people on the basis of infinite, undefined notions of “gender identity” instead of “gender reassignment” is identity politics gone mad — as doomed as “trying to legislate for agnostics”, Ms Yardley says. “They’re looking at legislating for my thoughts and feelings and it is nonsense.”

About 650,000 people in the UK identify themselves as transgender. Many have supported moves to ease the administrative burden of changing gender.

A spokeswoman for Stonewall, the LGBT group, welcomed the public consultation, saying: “This review is desperately needed as it’s time to move the legislation on from being a long complicated bureaucratic process, which treats being trans as a mental illness. We believe a better gender recognition act is a crucial next step in achieving equality for all trans people and will help reduce the discrimination and abuse that is all too prevalent in our society. Transphobia in Britain is at epidemic levels and this has to change.”

However, Debbie Hayton, 49, a science teacher from Birmingham who transitioned five years ago, has serious concerns. For her, self-declaration is going backwards, not forwards.

“At the moment, we’ve got the option of saying, look, here are pieces of paper that say we’ve been assessed by society. If you replace that with self-identification only, then effectively these people are relying only on their own assertions. People [who may be hostile to trans people] could simply say, we don’t believe you. It actually weakens our position,” she said.

“The idea that somehow people will face less discrimination if they can self-declare is fallacious and it needs calling out. I don’t see how that is going to help us in our day-to-day lives. It doesn’t address transphobia in society or how we can move on from discrimination.”

How exactly, she asked, does being able to declare your gender overnight stop transgender people being passed over for promotion or discriminated in the workplace?

“How will it stop people being kept in the back office instead of public-facing roles, or change the attitude of employers who might think, ‘If I employ you there may be problems’?

“That is the kind of discrimination that worries me. That’s what I want to see tackled. Instead we’re getting involved in a battle that is totally unnecessary.”

She empathises with the concerns of women’s groups and recommends individual risk assessments if someone born male, but identifying as a woman, seeks to enter a protected space such as a refuge. “Yes, that’s discriminatory but sometimes you just have to accept that if you want to respect other people in society.”

Debate is not discrimination, Ms Hayton said. “If people have concerns, I’d much prefer them to be shared and aired. We need to debate these issues. That is not being transphobic.”

OP posts:
CocoaXx · 06/11/2017 21:10

I have just read this and came onto post a big thank you @mirandayardley. An excellent article with well made points.

CAAKE · 06/11/2017 21:46

Great comment here - if not thought of this as a driving agenda but it sure makes sense now someone has written it down -

Transgender women criticise reform - Times article
Transgender women criticise reform - Times article
CAAKE · 06/11/2017 21:47

*I’d

SecretHandshake · 07/11/2017 11:48

@ChattyLion here are the links of parliament meeting:
Stephanie Davies-Arai
James Caspian
Judith Green
Miranda Yardley

OP posts:
Datun · 07/11/2017 12:18

SecretHandshake

Brilliant. Thank you. And thank you for putting the talks in sucheasily accessible links. I will spread the word.

VerticalBlinds · 07/11/2017 12:22

Stonewall are 100% a trans organisation now, when you go to talks on any subject this is their focus. There's also a heavy lean on LGB people, same as feminists, to centre trans. For LGB people to take their eye off the struggles around the world of LGB people and focus all their time energy etc on trans. It's really distressing to see.

VerticalBlinds · 07/11/2017 12:25

Basically all LGB groups must centre the T
All feminists must centre the T

The sheer gall and front of it amazes me. This is two massive movements, with a lot of work to do, for very large tranches of the population all over the world, being lambasted if they don't stop all that and just work for trans rights instead. I say trans rights - but of course many of the "rights" are directly in conflict with the fundamental desires of the groups in the first place. For gay men and lesbians (especially lesbians) to be able to choose their own sexual partners. For women's rights and opportunities to be improved in a sexist world. Now it's transphobic to say things like "a sexist world" in the first place.

pisacake · 07/11/2017 12:54

James Caspian's testimony is very powerful because he works in the field. Naturally the trans activists are saying that the fact he turned up at all to a meeting organised by a right-wing Tory proves that he is an evil transphobe. However, as he notes in his article, his own university literally silenced him, so there really aren't many available fora to speak freely.

Similar tactics have been employed against Maria MacLachlan, who sold her story to the Daily Mail, with trans activists claiming that this act proves that she is an evil bigot and all her opinions are rendered automatically worthless.

ArcheryAnnie · 07/11/2017 13:59

But the whole Gender Recognition Bill has been pushed forward and championed by a Tory! So by that logic trans activism on this is all terribly, terribly right wing.

Which would all matter is logic had any place in this discussion, but since it doesn't, hey-ho.

hipsterfun · 07/11/2017 17:18

I’d like to add my thanks to Stephanie Davies-Arai, James Caspian, Judith Green and Miranda Yardley for their work. Having clicked through and read what all four took to the meeting, I feel much more optimistic about the way the discussion is going to go.

BlackRod6 · 07/11/2017 17:34

I would really urge everyone to write to their MPs to highlight this meeting and the points made by its speakers. Ask the MP for their opinion. Where possible, add your own personal experiences. Stress that this is nothing to do with transphobia but about protecting women's rights. If you are on social media, make your letter public and let your MP know that you will be positing their reply on social media. Cc to Justine Greening.

Particularly target Labour MPs and Tory MPs who are confident rebelling - this is the only way to stop the bill getting through parliament.

If the government gets a sense that they will lose the vote, they will be more likely to scrap the policy than risk the humiliation of a defeat in the House.

BatShite · 07/11/2017 18:42

How many MPs actually attended the meeting? I would be interested to know if any questions were actually asked by the ones who did attend.

BlackRod6 · 07/11/2017 19:30

I can find out how many MPs attended but as I couldn't go along myself, I wouldn't know who asked questions, sorry.

ChattyLion · 07/11/2017 22:54

Secret thanks for the links. What brilliant speakers! What a relief this is being talked about openly with lawmakers and so eloquently.

Agree BlackRod. Are any women’s groups organising lobbying on this issue- Fawcett etc? Would be good if there was a central point to organise the replies from MPs.

It will be really important to fill the post bags of all MPs with letters of support on this issue from their gender-critical constituents, (or even better surgery appointments to discuss!), so that the MPs can feel informed and confident about voting the right way.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 08/11/2017 00:40

650,000 people in the UK identify themselves as transgender

I don't believe this

The Gender Identity Research & Education Society (GIRES) estimates that about 1% of the British population are gender nonconforming to some degree. The numbers of trans boys and trans girls are about equal

The figure is about right. 650,000 is about 1%- but what "gender nonconforming to some degree" means is anyone's guess.

BatShite · 08/11/2017 03:07

99%+ of the British population are gender nonconforming to some degree. Would surely be more accurate?

misscockerspaniel · 09/11/2017 16:13

India Willougby is being quoted on the ITV.com/news website in relation to the Topshop decision re changing rooms.

"Transgender journalist India Willougby told GMB: "I look at it this way. It's a hundred years since women got the vote and I think if Emily Panhurst was around now, she'd be looking for the closest racehorse to hurl herself under. I think gender really is becoming a bit of a joke - for me, it's not a form-filling exercise and I think gender-neutrality is doing a real disservice to genuine transgender women".

Datun · 09/11/2017 16:25

Yeah, India is pissed off because transactivists are giving her a bad name.

And of course, all this gender fluidity just pisses people off. No one buys it.

Unfortunately, in the minds of the general public, it’s the same as transgenderism.

JigglyTuff · 09/11/2017 18:00

India is pissing off everyone - women and TRAs.

Ereshkigal · 09/11/2017 19:41

The self ID supporting transactivists have already gone for India once.

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