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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminist books to be banned from University libraries....

39 replies

busyboysmum · 29/10/2017 22:09

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/universities-may-censor-student-reading-xwjdhc9bn

Universities are considering the insertion of warnings into books and even moving some off open library shelves altogether to protect students from “dangerous” and “wrong” arguments.

The proposal could hit books by climate-change sceptics, feminists, eugenicists, creationists, theologians and Holocaust deniers. It will generate new controversy over free speech at British universities, where speakers have been “no-platformed” because of their views.

The move on books follows a campaign to restrict access to work by the historian David Irving, which has already resulted in some university libraries, including Churchill College, Cambridge, moving his books into closed storage. Others, such as University College London, have also labelled some of Irving’s books “Holocaust denial literature”, or shelved them with historiography rather than history.

Manchester has refused to removeIrving’s books from open display, arguing that making them available to students is a matter of free speech, which universities have a duty to uphold.

The director of library services at UCL, Paul Ayris, revealed the decision to move the Irving books was based on “contemporary thinking among librarians”. This included a study “of the sometimes complex ethical issues of library neutrality, in relation, for example, to climate-change denial, and questions of equality and diversity, as well as Holocaust denial”.

Ayris also referred to a campaign directed at Vancouver Women’s Library to ban 20 feminist titles including works by Andrea Dworkin and Catharine MacKinnon on the grounds they might offend transgender people and sex workers.

Academics said controversial titles included Nigel Lawson’s book An Appeal to Reason: A Cool Look at Global Warming, and The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail, which hypothesised that the children of Jesus and Mary Magdalene have a claim to the throne of France, inspiring Dan Brown’s novel The Da Vinci Code.

The debate is being led by a group called the Radical Librarians Collective, which argues that pretending that libraries are “neutral” in the way they display books “maintains the status quo of white supremacist capitalist patriarchy”.

OP posts:
HouseholdWords · 30/10/2017 19:26

Oh OK, fair enough. I'd skim read it as an kind of "we could also think about it this way" - I recommend the WonkHE blog I linked to, though. Much more rational.

MrsTerryPratchett · 30/10/2017 19:45

It's so stupid and short-sighted.

In my day university students were considered to be people who could think critically. We were encouraged to read, for example, primary texts by IRA leaders, rather than secondary texts. Because we were supposed to be able to assess ideas and place weight onto them accordingly. Now it seems that university students are too stupid and delicate to assess thoughts. They must be spoon-fed and protected from ideas.

They should be ashamed of themselves.

theendisnotnigh · 30/10/2017 19:52

MrsTerryPratchett
It is shortsighted - but it also made me feel very depressed that there are librarians in Universities of all places who see feminists on a par with flat earthers! It could be funny ... but it isn't.

I'm continually Shock at the ease with which men on the left - and I assume that he's on the left - don't just dismiss women's voices but can actually define them as 'hate speech'.

Ttbb · 30/10/2017 19:58

I blame antibullying campaigns, no, seriously. When schools started to get touchy feely, the quality of students that came out in relation to a sense of entitlement to not being offended/obligatory victimhood/the inability to make, dissect or defend an argument etc just went down hill. I mean really, this 'we don't agree with it so it's harmful for other people to read it' mentality is just ridiculous. Anyone who thinks that mere words can be dangerous is an idiot. What utter tosh.

HouseholdWords · 30/10/2017 20:10

It's deeper than that, I'm afraid - the whole secondary education system, including A Levels, is broken down into bits, and the pupils are taught to pass exams, not think critically. For all sorts of reasons - getting more kids through school, feeding league tables, rooting out what successive governments have thought of as "bad" teaching ...

HornyTortoise · 31/10/2017 11:30

His words seem to me to leave no doubt He defines 'trans-exclusionary feminism and sex-worker-exclusionary radical feminism' as 'texts that spread disinformation'.

Yes, that is absolutely disgusting in my view to be quite honest. To put 'terfs' besides a bunch of proven bullshit. Basically again, saying that if feminism does not centre males, than it is wrong and bollocks and bigoted. Same shit different day eh

Not entirely sure what a swerf is. I know it stands for sex work excluding radical feminists but no idea what it actually means as I cannot see any branch of feminisn purposely excluding sex workers. More that radical feminism is against sex work...not the workers themselves. Is this right?

Ereshkigal · 01/11/2017 09:51

Horny they mean anyone who supports the Nordic model or writes critically about prostitution as the exploitation of women for the benefit of men.

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/11/2017 14:21

Horny they mean anyone who supports the Nordic model or writes critically about prostitution as the exploitation of women for the benefit of men.

This is my issue. They are conflating factual issues (denying the holocaust/denying the earth is round/creationism) which are very easily disproved, with (in their minds) wrongheadedness. They disagree with the OPINION radical feminists have on prostitution. That is incredibly dangerous.

Whatever happened to 'know thine enemy'. If I want to understand and combat the far right, I have to know what they are saying, what they believe and why. I can't just stick my fingers in my ears and say, "lalalalala". Brexit anyone? If they disagree with me on prostitution, they should listen to what I say and try to refute my points. Same with the trans stuff.

This level of 'debate' is why people jump into trans threads here, shout, "TRANSPHOBIC" and leave. They have had an opinion installed with no instruction manual.

Xenophile · 01/11/2017 14:37

I asked the librarians, and one of them said that on the down low, they do keep having to rescue feminist books from elsewhere because they get hidden in ways that David Irving for example, doesn't. It's all still available though and there is still easy access to primary sources on every topic taught via the online searches. I almost miss spending hours rootling about in bound journals though

HornyTortoise · 01/11/2017 18:38

Horny they mean anyone who supports the Nordic model or writes critically about prostitution as the exploitation of women for the benefit of men.

I see. I am pro-Nordic model. Makes a hell of a lot of sense to me. I guess this makes me a SWERF aswell as a TERF.

Ereshkigal · 02/11/2017 22:28

If they disagree with me on prostitution, they should listen to what I say and try to refute my points. Same with the trans stuff.

Yes, but they can't. They aren't equipped to.

Bucketsandspoons · 03/11/2017 08:25

mrspratchett that's what struck me too. It isn't so much 'this is an unacceptable opinions because reasons' but 'this opinion or information must be hidden so we don't risk people believing it' Often in TRA stuff because the information is true and very inconvenient for people to know because then they question and see through the TRA narrative. The leaflets Helen Steel was assaulted over were factual!

Very dangerous road to go down.

MrsTerryPratchett · 03/11/2017 14:46

Presumably they know that what happens isn't the convenient 'bigots will be bigots' scenario that is the Party Line. Instead a lot of women move from that position to a more nuanced position over time. I know I did.

MrsTerryPratchett · 03/11/2017 14:47

Meant to say; reading helps that move. Obviously that means that stopping women reading about this issue helps the transactivists and punter groups. We stay in the dark longer.

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