Men at Westminster

[OlennasWimple]

In the light of the revelations already out there, and the suggestion that there are plenty more to come, I thought it would be worth having a stand alone thread to discuss them rather than them being caught up in other threads. The way that this is being reported and commented on is interesting in itself.

For example, it's apparently Theresa May's fault that there are "sex pests" in the Cabinet (not the men themselves who are to blame)

Whilst Jeremy Hunt manages to patronise grown women with his suggestion that the people who need reassurance are "the mums and dads" of women in Westminster, not the women themselves...

Definition of casualty:

a person killed or injured in a war or accident.

"the shelling caused thousands of civilian casualties"

synonyms:victim,fatality,mortality;More

a person or thing badly affected by an event or situation.

"the building industry has been one of the casualties of the recession"

synonyms:victim,sufferer,loser,loss

"the corporation was a casualty of the weak economy"

Not "man who thought casual sexism and harassment was acceptable"

His resignation cannot just be about Julia Hartley-Brewer's knee. She has already protested at great length (a bit too much if you ask me) that it didn't bother her in the slightest. Hardly something a Cabinet member would fall on his sword over.

So many commentators don't seem to get that its not just about a hand on your knee. Its not like an annoying fly that you can swat away and forget about it. Its the underlying message - 'you're nothing but a bit of totty to me at the end of the day'. That must be really devastating from a man that you though was a friend, or colleague, or someone who you thought respected you, and thought you were talented or interesting and had skills and talent. Nope. He just sees you as a bit of skirt after all.

I felt sick yesterday thinking about Kate Maltby's allegations against Damien Greene. A man who is a friend of your parents, who has presumably known you since you were a child, who has experience and connections in the field you want to work in, invites you out for a drink to catch up and talk careers. Great. Next thing you know, he's brushing his hand against your knee and telling you how understanding his wife is about these things. I would have been heartbroken if it was me. Utterly vile.

And Theresa May should also be ashamed of herself for apparently trying to bury complaints that were raised by Lisa Nandy MP

These men should be ripped from their positions like the toxic cancer they are.

The idea of men with those sort of attitudes possessing any sort of power or status is nauseating. It's not enough that prospective candidates should be vetted to prevent 'scandals' (a vile acceptance of moral complicity) but should be under a moral panopticon at all times. As someone said upthread, they can send men and women out to die in war, but can't maintain the most basic and simplistic moral boundaries.

this is what democracy produces, beasts voting for beasts

The Westminster gossip is Michael Fallon resigned"not because of a hand on JHB's knee, but because he couldn't guarantee there would not be another allegation made about him". Which translates as..he's done worse and is worried it will be exposed.

Bloody Nick Robinson again on the Today programme this morning, interviewing Jess Phillips about the latest accusation against a Labour MP. Jess asks if she's allowed to say cock up on the radio. Yes, but perhaps not in this context, japes Robinson, oh so hilariously.

HIGNFY is too male. Hislop's got previous on sexist bullying, he was horrible to the late Paula Yates when she was on it.

Jo Brand called them out on their sexism tonight, gently, so well done to her.

I saw her doing a comedy gig in Aylesbury in the 1980s.
One of her jokes then was :
"How do you stop rape? Arm women."
Got a great laugh and cheer.
Times have changed.

hislop is a tedious unfunny ugly little nurk. Proof of double standards in broadcasting - no woman that ugly and charmless would ever get on tv

There's a thread, titled HIGNFY, which gives details of how to complain to BBC.
Doesn't take long, and complaints get counted.
Truly shit stuff- 4 male panelists making light of sexual assaults and harassment.

Hislop's got previous on sexist bullying, he was horrible to the late Paula Yates when she was on it

Paula Yates was funny and kept her dignity. Hislop was awful.

I have worked a lot in parliament over the years (though I'm employed in the far more PC environment of charity). Its a problem across parties and across houses. Don't be fooled that its only the Conservatives (I'm not one by the way), just look up of the misogynist abuse hurled at women on the internet is coming from very nasty Corbynistas.

Historically and institutionally many people have turned a blind eye and bowed to seniority and career prospects rather than championing the conduct we should be able to expect from our elected officials and leaders. Its similar to many environments that are male dominated, with a consequent power imbalance. But adding to the mix is a strong drinking culture, late hours and a certain separation from home and famillies which has lent itself to this sort of inappropriate behaviour.

I might be wrong but I'd be surprised if its as bad as the movie business, modelling and music business. Its there and real and unacceptable but I've never felt it to be endemic every hour of every day.

It needs to stop in every level of society and should be led from the top. Its abuse of power, entitlement and inequality and disrespect for women. However, it is ironic really that Theresa May is the Prime Minister during this scandal. Its not well known but she has a track record in championing Domestic Violence and supporting funding in that area since her time in the Home Office and has some history supporting other women's causes which surprised me when I first heard. I was invited to a women only reception at No 10 earlier this year where many were talking about her commitment in the area. But she's a weak leader at the moment and further problems will only exacerbate the fragility of her position.

However, I do need to say that some of the items on the 40 Conservative MPs spreadsheet are simply relationships and affairs between consenting adults so not worthy of being lumped into serious allegations of assault or rape. We need to draw the line between gossip and serious abuses of power.

We need to draw the line between gossip and serious abuses of power.
The two are inextricably linked.

Comedian Pippa Evans also illustrated how to be funny about the topic of sexual harassment and assault without making a joke of it, last night on The Now Show on Radio 4. She made up a song to help men know when not to touch other women. It's at the end of the programme.

Tracy Ullman did a spoof PPI ad on her show for sexual assault claims.
However, there must be quite a few Equalities and Sexual Offences Act cases in the pipeline.

Chris Evans, eeeewwww
www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/chris-evans-sexual-harassment-allegations-bbc-big-breakfast-investigation-2016-police-a8037161.html%3famp

This is from a BBC article about Charlie Elphick
Sir Roger Gale, Conservative MP for North Thanet, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme it would be wrong to "rush to judgement" before there is proof of wrongdoing, warning against a "witch hunt".
He said: "We're in danger of getting into a situation where nobody half bright, half sensible, half decent, will want to go into the House of Commons - and that will not be good for democracy.

Errr, what about the female half of the population? No bright, sensible, decent people there?

The Charlie Elphick stuff has been referred to the police, so obviously whilst he is innocent until proven guilty, it would appear that there is something that appears to be actually criminal in his past that has been hushed up until now

We need to draw the line between gossip and serious abuses of power.

The two are inextricably linked

Well, yes and no (to them being linked)

I don't care about work place relationships provided that they are between consenting adults. Parties need to have clear guidelines (like other work places) but not describe such relationships as "fornicating", with all the moral judgment that implies.

And when two consenting adults in a relationship decide to have a baby, it is decidedly odd (as well as judgmental) to describe this happy occasion as "A impregnating B"

All this stuff does is muddy the waters of those who have allegedly engaged in criminal activities (such as using prostitutes and "enjoying young boys") and those who are known serial sexual harassers

He said: "We're in danger of getting into a situation where nobody half bright, half sensible, half decent, will want to go into the House of Commons

Good. I don't want people who are only "half" decent. I want decency to be an absolute minimum.

Same really for bright and sensible.

And yes to leaving out half the population who would actually probably be more likely to want to work there if they knew these sort of men were reluctant to work there.

I am sick of hearing discussions and interviews about this which are entirely male contributors. On the occasion of there being women engaged there is always a woman apologist 'for balance' - Petronella Wyatt was loudly talking over another contributor and came very close to describing harassment as flattery. Someone (her mother?) apparently enjoyed being chased around the desk by Gaitskill, ignoring the other contributor's attempts to point out that the Wyatt family are not exactly typical of young, friendless women interns and juniors.

This morning it was Roger Gale playing to witch hunt card with all the implications that 'women lie'. Apparently all the women who have raised complaints are journalists or connected to journalists so must be lying about the poor menz. This is presumably the line which will be pursued across party lines

there is always a woman apologist 'for balance'
Yes wtf is this all about? So far the only women I've heard have been going on about it's all fine, things are better than when they were young, women just need to stand up for themselves. It is really annoying me now. The narrative seems to be shifting to "how do we stop the witch hunt?" Instead of "how do we stop men being pigs?"
Well, plus ca change I guess

Petronella Wyatt gave me the radge on the Today programme, I was shouting at the radio with exasperation.
She came over as a braying over privileged fool.
A fully paid up member of the establishment though so hardly surprising.
I suspect defending that is more important to her and the other women the media wheel out to tell us to stop clutching our pearls / being so hysterical/ etc etc.

That list was clearly an internal list. They knew all of it, and I suspect used it for whipping. The language too - "inappropriate with women"? "Had other women"? Do fuck off.

what’s the deal with this wyatt woman - she hiring herself out to whoever needs a posh moron to come on and remind us all why meritocracy is a good thing? I thought she sounded like she had several screws loose. Total broadmoor material.

Edwina Currie excelled too on 'This Week': "good men" are having their political careers destroyed by their crimes/ women who pursue the crimes the men have perpetrated.

Is it a coincidence that she, Wyatt, KH etc are tories or worse?

Twas ever thus with Uncle Toms.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41908424

Sargent "thrown to the wolves" by being suspended while misconduct investigated.
I spy a narrative of "false accusations ruin lives" building.
It is horrific he committed suicide but let's not suggest it's the fault of the victim or his party for investigating allegations appropriately