Stonewall really are throwing women udner the bus aren't they [sad]

[tallstork]

FFS

Guardian aticle today from Ruth Hunt, chief executive of Stonewall.

Some believe that if people could self-declare their gender without the bureaucracy and paperwork, men will simply say “I am a woman” in order to access female-only spaces to abuse women. We all should be concerned about male violence, and we should all be concerned about preventing it and responding to it when it happens

But granting trans people equality will not make women any less safe. We live in a society where, unfortunately, women’s safety isn’t guaranteed. But trans people are not to blame for this, and often they are at risk themselves

So, basically she's saying women are silly to concern ourselves with an increased threat from male violence, as we're not safe anyway?

Domestic violence and rape crisis centres are concerned primarily with supporting the victims of male violence, and they will always find an appropriate service for anybody who arrives at their door, including trans men and women. They have been doing it for years without asking trans people to show their certificate. They know how to balance the complex needs with sensitivity and professionalism, although it’s clear that trans (and LGB) people require more direct services designed for them, such as the specialist LGBT service that sits alongside a women’s aid centre in Birmingham.

Oh and women and transwomen are not different. Except when they are because transwomen need special services. But not women.
No mention of issues like women not being able to object to a be-penised rape counsellor or an AGP in their group meeting.

Women and trans people both exist in a world where they are prevented from accessing true equality because of their gender. We must not be divided by arguments that undermine the equality we so desperately need and deserve.

And that's just minimising, patronising bullshit.
Stop whining, women, do as they say now.

AIBU or has she totally deliberately missed the point?

When will misogyny become a hate crime?

Women and trans people both exist in a world where they are prevented from accessing true equality because of their gender.

It's shit like this that fucks me off no end. Women do not have equality because of our SEX not our fucking bullshit socially constructed gender. If we could identify our way out of it we fucking would.

Agreed formerly.
It's like they are saying, we need men to come into our "gender" and tell us how to do it right in order to achieve (what they view as) equality.

For me it’s the comments on male violence, violence that is connected to the biological male. The exact same group that trans women share the same genetics. The majority of men I know are not violent but enough of their sex are that women need shelter and support from them. I am not sure how the writer can label “male violence” whilst at the same time reducing male/female to just a feeling. How does she know these violent men are not really trans women still presenting as male. it just seems contradictory.

Men aren’t worried at all.

Indeed. This might not be exactly on topic but it's also reminded me that the way this is giving some men licence to attack women and dismiss our concerns whilst presenting themselves as oh so progressive and fantastic allies is grating on me. Men who claim to be progressive are being able to dismiss women's concerns and attack some feminists for being concerned about women's safety, knowing full well their safety isn't at risk and they have nothing to worry about with this. It's rather easy to shout at people for being "bigots" (and use this as a helpful vehicle for their misogyny) when they have no fears for their own safety in this area.

There are also probably a few others who support the TRA line without really considering this kind of thing because the safety concerns don't register to them as males - this happened with a boy I know who's at least started listening since I pointed all this out.

If granting all men access to a womens only area does not make anyone less safe, then allowing trans people in cannot be necessary for their safety.
Ruth has completely denied womens agency, and does not believe privacy is an issue.

Well done Alittlebit, very well said.

There are some great and truthful comments on that article. Hopefully readers will become a bit more educated.

"The reality is that if a man wants to dress up as a woman to access women-only spaces, he’ll do it anyway. No piece of paper will prevent it."

And under this new law, if it is passed, it will seemingly be a hate crime to question the presence of any men in a women's space. Whether they are or appear to be male or female.

I had this discussion with DH a few months ago. He didn't get it. Of course, the fact that he is significantly taller & stronger even than most men was irrelevant (!) He seemed to think that no-one would take advantage of this & that if they did, it would be ok because they would be dealt with by the police. Because of course all rapists are successfully convicted.

I am very worried about the safety of my DD, and her generation, if (sadly, it's probably when) this law goes through.

fern
I think I might get that made into stickers and put it up in local female only spaces.

OK, Ruth, how about this scenario?

If teenage boys can self-declare their gender without the bureaucracy and paperwork, they will simply say “I am a girl” in order to access the girls' loos to wind up, tease and possibly abuse teenage girls.

And, for added fun, groups such as GIRES are going into schools and making sure the boys know this, and that the girls are being told it's a 'hate crime' to challenge it.

Is there, somewhere in the small print, a clause that says 'Of course, Ryan in 3G is a known piss-taker, so if he says he's a girl on Monday lunchtimes, you can still chuck him out of the girls' loos'?

If not, why not?

All of Ruth's statement is missing the basic point that equality is not about everybody being the same. The equality act aims to help equalise a field for those who are disadvantaged by a difference.

The 41% statistic comes from some survey or another, and has been translated into 'more than 2 out of 5 transgender people don't feel safe walking down some streets' Facebook meme, which a friend of mine shared.

My only response was that this is a normal experience for all women ie to not feel safe in some areas, and 3 out of 5 women feeling safe anywhere is unimaginable.

But we all just think that's normal and okay, don't we?

I was deeply shocked by Ruth Hunt's piece. It lacked any consideration of women's perspectives and our realistic fear of male violence, as if this is what the transgender community's problem is.

Her attitude to rape was basically 'we can't ensure that women are safe, but never mind, if you are raped, you can go to Rape Crisis who will help you'.

Oh, that's alright then.

It was a very confused and muddled article. I couldn't believe it when I read it yesterday. The 41% statistic is nonsense - in my home town I'm pretty sure 90% of young men would avoid walking down certain streets come twilight never mind women or transsexuals.
And as for the implication that if you are attacked in formerly female only spaces then there are good services to deal with that beggars belief.

I saw this today (not fully enough reported) but since when is thinking you might be transgender a mitigating factor for stockpiling child porn?
www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/pervert-wins-jail-sentence-cut-688023

That's shocking Wormulonian

She's totally missing one point (among many others ) about self-identification.

How are women supposed to tell the difference between a harmless just-want-to-get-on-with-my-life transwoman and a man in a dress and bad make up with criminal intent (like Ian Huntley or that multiple rapist who says he's a woman. But kept on raping).

Given the fact that women are always vulnerable to sexual assault, even if supposedly safe spaces, why is it STILL up to us to sort out the harmless trans women from the criminally-inclined men?

And then we have the bonkersness of a Gren Party member who, at the time of the non-men debacle, said that he

"Presented as a man, but identified as a woman"

So hey, let's just let anyone who feels like ogling women into our safe protected spaces. What the hell. We're only women, after all.