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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Impact of transgender organisations - who is behind them and how have they become so influential?

223 replies

theendisnotnigh · 22/10/2017 18:38

Looking at the Times article about the government telling the UN that the phrase pregnant people should be used instead of pregnant women Angry. Where has the government got their mandate from from to make these massive changes?
When is some investigative journalist going to take a look behind the scenes at who these massively influential transgender groups are? (Gendered Intelligence, GIRES etc).
How have this tiny percentage of the population had such a significant response? The groups are feted by government, the Dept for Education, the NHS fund and actively promote them.
We know that they have used tactics of threats and intimidation to very successfully silence democratic debate and discussion. We know that they have gained access to politicians (Maris Miller etc) in ways that other political groups can't do. So who are they? Are they funded by the Drugs companies (who have much to gain from the lifelong medication of transgender children to adults).
We know that they are active in schools, local authorities, workplaces. What are their qualifications for changing schools? Do their staff going into schools have DBS checks? Do they work directly with children and young people? Why are the DfE , NHS promoting political activist groups to train educators and health professionals - normally schools are very careful about giving political interest groups direct access in this way?

I think we need to be asking questions of the government about what checks and balances they have made before recommending these groups and why they are getting such preferential treatment? What other massive social change in history has taken place behind closed doors and with active government involvement?

OP posts:
DJBaggySmalls · 24/10/2017 14:31

We are already being written off as the tin hat brigade.
There was a conspiracy around Saville, abuse in childrens homes, and the grooming scandals. But we are the loons.

(The information in that post is correct . Admiralty House and other historic buildings are now leased out and governed by Sharia Law to allow Saudi investors to come to the UK.
I posted it as a response to ''What other massive social change in history has taken place behind closed doors and with active government involvement?.'' People have ignored that and added their own meaning.)

BertrandRussell · 24/10/2017 14:37

I thought the links were from an unreliable source and in the context of the thread, irrelevant and borderline racist. I therefore assumed an attempt to smear a recognisable poster, so I reported and moved on.

Meh.

Vitalogy · 24/10/2017 14:39

Surely you fight it with the truth what ever the source.

Missymoo100 · 24/10/2017 14:40

Djbaggysmallpox- agree with your last post, people need to assess what they consider trustworthy. The people funding this have a lot of influence and power.

I know a lot of people say they don't believe a conspiracy theories...but all that aside this whole situation is absurd in itself, it's not an organic movement it's being really heavily funded.. you have to ask yourself why.
Leaders don't always have the best intentions, it's not the first time propaganda has lead to harm, any history book can tell you that.

SomeDyke · 24/10/2017 14:41

I think Doobigetta has nailed it!

Part of a wider usage of biological-essentialist ideas. When used about lesbian and gay folks, it reinforces the idea that some people just are born gay (which means you can't catch it). Indeed, even on Mumsnet, you see people worrying that it is homophobic to suggest otherwise. Which means that in effect, you can still view lesbians and gays as unfortunate in terms of the lottery of life. I mean, you can then forget about gay liberation or any ideas that being gay might be preferable to being straight, that political lesbianism ever existed (I'm staying away from saying whether or not I agree with that stance, I'm just saying that hitching yourself to the innate bandwagon removed that whole area from discussion as well as exempting straight folks from any need to think about the socially constructed aspects of their own sexual orientation.).
Then, make it a double whammy by bringing essentialism into sexual politics as well. Okay, an perhaps unintended side-effect of that is if you believe men and women are essentially different in the head in some way, then the wrong brain hypothesis for trans sneaks in as well. But the win here is that the menz aren't actually keeping women out, but their own biology is perhaps the culprit, not anything else, nothing to see here folks! Which fits with the current NAMALT when a particular man is discovered to be guilty of mass sexual assault against women or children, it boils down to their individual make-up, or reaction to a particular social situation, rather than analyzing the social situation itself. Gender as a social control mechanism and structure remains unanalyzed.

Pussy hats not tin hats! It's not a special group conspiracy, it's just the existing structure (patriarchy) doing what we all knew it could do without anyone directing it -- reacting to threats to itself (feminism, gay liberation, threats to gender).

Knusper · 24/10/2017 14:47

Ha! I see, DJ.

To be clear, my thought processes on the sharia post were:

  • Irrelevant links to dubious sources with no further commentary = obviously inflammatory derail
  • Poster has similar name to longstanding prolific poster on feminist topics. This post would be uncharacteristic for longstanding poster
  • People try to smear gender critical MNetters all the time so that's the most likely explanation. But we're not supposed to openly troll hunt on MN so I'll just flag up the anomaly.
BertrandRussell · 24/10/2017 14:50

Yep, me too. Knusper. Hence I reported and moved on. Pissed off now.

differenteverytime · 24/10/2017 15:03

I think the sharia post made an important point, but may have backfired on us. I assumed it was a troll, or just someone who'd got overenthusiastic at the sniff of a conspiracy theory. A quick Google showed that the only sources for that information weren't what I'd call reliable, so I disregarded the post.

But later I was looking at Twitter and there's someone on there on the side of the trans lobby, using that post to discredit everything else on this thread. We're all a bunch of lunatics and the sharia post is one of the main examples they've given.

Missymoo100 · 24/10/2017 15:12

Someone also touched on the fact earlier that it's a way of controlling children and removing parental authority... I see this creeping in in other ways too..
The smacking ban in Scotland and their named person plan.
At present chastising children is allowed so long as no marks are left, but this ban will completely outlaw it. I don't know what else will be considered assault but will for instance grabbing their arm count? What is the limit that will be considered.
Not that I'm pro smacking but this will just target normal parents. The police and social care are already overstretched and this is drawing attention/resources away from actual abuse cases. It's another way to reduce parental authority and get control over children. I can just imagine the "named person" quizzing children about their parents , so that there is no dissent. I think just a matter of time before this comes into uk.

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest · 24/10/2017 15:32

Another aspect of this in the US is the switch of the ACLU from focusing on minority rights for POC and women, to almost exclusively focusing on trans-rights which has been discussed on [https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2016/05/30/georgia-aclu-director-resigns-over-the-organizations-failure-to-balance-transgender-rights-with-womens-rights/ Gender Trender]

OneFlewOverTheDodosNest · 24/10/2017 15:33

Gender Trender with working link this time

Missymoo100 · 24/10/2017 15:53

One flew over- its a shame people have to stand down from their position to defend the rights of women and girls, but bravo for her for being brave enough to make a stand.

Knusper · 24/10/2017 16:45

BertrandRussell I'm a bit disappointed because it gives transactivists undeserved ammunition. Also because DJ is an interesting contributor and presumably risking a ban for socking/misleading behaviour. Which would be a genuine shame.

OTOH it didn't cross my mind that we might be being co-opted into an experiment, so was successful in that respect...

AssignedPerfectAtBirth · 24/10/2017 21:20

Were you pansies too DJ?

busyboysmum · 24/10/2017 21:29

I'm wondering whether it's a good idea to let my kids go to Uni at the moment. Apart from the enormous debt they would get into, the student agenda nowadays seems so pro trans I worry they would come back indoctrinated and confused. I'm kind of wanting to keep a weather eye on them.

AssignedPerfectAtBirth · 24/10/2017 21:39

Wondering how you get a choice Busy. My experience of teens is that they are not to be told such things

busyboysmum · 24/10/2017 21:44

No my boys seem pretty sensible joyfully. We've not had any teenage madness thus far. We've discussed the trans issue but they both said they have very sensible classmates and there's none of this gender fluid nonsense at their school. Their words not mine 😉

AssignedPerfectAtBirth · 24/10/2017 21:49

No I meant about letting them go to Uni.

There's a point at which you can't really tell them what to do anymore, but just hope that they value your advice

busyboysmum · 24/10/2017 21:57

Oh I see what you mean. Yes. I'm doubting the value of Uni nowadays but yes if they were determined to go it would be their choice.

differenteverytime · 25/10/2017 08:50

I've just waved a dd (not my younger, trans-identifying one) off to uni, as is only right, as she wanted to go. Uni is the right place for her to be just now, and she's fulfilling her dream of studying the subject that she loves.

Of course, I worry on this issue. She is entirely invested in the current trans agenda, possibly because one of her best friends at school has been out as a trans guy since they were all 15. From what she says about her first weeks at uni, it looks like she has immediately made friends with another trans guy/non binary person. But to her credit she engaged with me a couple of times over the summer, instead of storming out or bursting into tears as she used to do. She has now given it a fair hearing - doesn't agree, as her thinking is so heavily influenced by her need to be 'nice'. But she now knows the issues. One thing that helps is that she knows I have a lifelong FTM friend of my own, so she can't just dismiss me as a transphobe. Her sister 'coming out as trans' has also shaken her, as she's now seen up close the power of social contagion. So I have to trust her own critical faculties, but there's really nothing I can do about it. I'd never want her not to go to uni because of this issue.

My younger, trans-identified dd is another matter entirely. I still would never stop her going to uni, even if I could. It isn't my place. But I am fucking terrified of what will happen when she gets there. I have no idea what that landscape will be like in 2-3 years, when she all the people who are currently 15 - a peak age - arrive at uni. Will the 'trend' aspect of it have moved on, or will it be the orthodoxy that they all rush to start on T as a right of passage and a big Fuck You to their bigoted TERF mothers?

busyboysmum · 25/10/2017 10:33

Oh I'm sorry this is so close to your heart, I didn't realise, please accept my apologies if I have been thoughtless.

Honestly I am however questioning the value of encouraging my boys to go to Uni. I had some terrible experiences when I was at Uni that came directly from being unsupported there on my own at such a young age. I was only able to escape my situation by coming home once I had graduated.

So I don't really want my boys to have to go through that. I'm not sure how character building it is - it took me a long time to get back to being the person I was before I went. I'm not sure I have ever fully recovered TBH.

busyboysmum · 11/11/2017 08:04

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/meet-alex-bertie-the-transgender-poster-boy-z88hgh8b8

Another great article here from Janice Turner.

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