"A man who was raped in a hostel tells of his ordeal"

[pisacake]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-tyne-41614756/a-man-who-was-raped-in-a-hostel-has-told-of-his-ordeal
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4978220/Transgender-man-speaks-serial-sex-attacker-jailed.html

The victim, who is a transman, says of the rapist "He was treating us like a woman and saw me as a woman".

The rapist was convicted of a second rape of a female student.

I find this a bit confusing, as the victim says, the rapist saw them as a woman and wanted to rape a woman. The rapist then raped a second woman. The victim, however, believes they are a man.

Presumably this goes down in stats as a rape of a man?

It was brave of Scott Wilson to speak openly. I'm glad his account was believed.

One thing however bothers me- was he believed because he was so vehement that he is a man? That this should not be happening to him because he is not sexually attracted to men.

I don't mean that the police believe he is a man but that given the strength of his belief that he is a man did the usual excuses of " "she led him on" " he thought she consented" et al not feature at all?

OP "To what end?"

You did not just say that about surgery!

LassWiTheDelicateAir

It wouldn't surprise me that his obvious 'transman credentials' would been taken into account.

It looks to me as though he is completely genuine in his belief and that would have given him instant credibility. Rape myths being so prevalent.

My heart goes out to these trans men. I also read about the taxi driver rape and the protest that she was a man. I come across quite a few TIFs in my work and as a survivor of child abuse myself they often raise my spidey sense. I think young transmen are very vulnerable and made more so by their beliefs. It's impossible to face the world and thrive without a firm grip on reality.
My main concern with this situation though is the collection of crime statistics. If male bodied perpetrators are recorded as female or women and female bodied victims of violent crime are recorded as male or men, the very new progress that's been made on specificly gendered data collection will be wiped out before we've even been able to analyse it properly.
When I did some research into the 2013 violent crime statistics released in the U.K. I had to constantly cross reference from one spreadsheet to another to get an accurate picture of what sex commits what type of crime and what sex is most frequently subjected to it. Even then, much of this information could not be seen because of the inconsistencies in the way the data was recorded by sex. Things have been improved in the 4 year period since but these improvements will be useless if trans people must be recorded according to their identity.
I'll give you an example of how useful it can be to have really accurate and specific data. In violent crime statistics, it is clear that black men do not commit violent crimes at a higher rate than white men but it is also clear that they are convicted of violent crime at a much higher rate. Very revealing. Something the justice system might want to act on. (We live in hope) Can you imagine if there was a campaign to stop recording statistics by race because this was deemed racist?

There is something about this I cannot put my finger on, which is that this person presents as a man and the credibility appears to rest on this fact.

So they could not believe that the rapist was serious because they live and identify as a woman. Whereas for women it is a case of I could not believe he was serious because it was not reciprocated/mutual/consenting. No on its own or even no response is not enough. It needs an extra layer of lifting beyond femaleness.

I am not articulating this well. I was raped as a wife within a dominant power hierarchy. That is probably how many rapes happen. How many years has it taken for that to become an offence, and honestly, how many women ever prosecute, let alone are given news space. Your credibility would be shredded.

None of this detracts from the valid concerns about the vulnerability of trans men, who do not seem to understand that biology still places them at risk, as does the biology of all natal females.

I am not articulating this at all well - it is the suggestion it is not okay because the victim was transgender, rather than because they said no, regardless of how they identify.

What smells to me is that the victim thought they could talk their way out of it by explaining they were a man / had male privilege (in effect), which suggests that it is somehow different / OK / logical that he would rape women - you know- those rapable inferior beings (not like men). I feel thrown to the lions, rather than sympathy for the FtT.

Cocoa, if you are saying that the victim expects extra outrage because of considering themselves not a woman, I completely hear you.

It's not helpful to anyone because what happened here was a biological male raped a biological female - and it is being presented as if "this shouldnt happen to me because I'm not a biological woman" but that is a delusion.

It's also interesting because it's as if the victim thought being transgender rather than transsexual was protection. I dress like that, could cut my hair shorter but I'd never think, oh I am protected from men. In fact the victim looks a lot like my female heterosexual married boss. No reason at all to assume it's a "man".

I bet the trans lobby will manage to alter the law so rape of a trans has a worse penalty.

I can honestly see myself needing to identify as a man to fit some strange new law at some point, or at least to make a mockery of it.

"I bet the trans lobby will manage to alter the law so rape of a trans has a worse penalty."

It's already an aggravating factor, isn't it? IF she had been the only victim then they could have said she was raped BECAUSE she is a transman.

Yes, it is the layer of ‘it should not happen to me because I am trans’ rather than you should not rape people.

Though I by no means to make light of what was a horrendous experience, the arguments deployed are misguided.

There is a double whammy of women not safe if transwomen are predatory and trans men are not safe if men are predatory.

Scott would have been safer in a women’s hostel, regardless of how they identified, which was a same sex space.

and it is being presented as if "this shouldnt happen to me because I'm not a biological woman" but that is a delusion.

Yes I think the woman claiming disbelief because she was a transman, is delusional, rather than malicious. It appears as though she genuinely believed she shouldn't be raped as much as a woman, not that women are more 'deserving'.

Although, looking at that, I realise it amounts to exactly the same thing.

And I can easily see assaults on trans people been given an extra layer of criminality. It's a protected characteristic. Being female isn't.

Have I got that right?

Raping someone who is trans (whether male or female) could be considered a hate crime on the basis of their trans identity, but raping a woman can't?

Well, yes, unless the man rapes them in the same way he would rape a man, there is an additional factor of not respecting their trans status. So it would additionally be a hate crime in the same way rape would be aggravated by GBH (even though rape is violence).

Cannot believe I am actually writing that.

Men should not rape, regardless. That is the issue, not how we categorise the crime depending on the gender identity of the victim. Rape is rape.

If GBH occurred in addition to rape, I mean.

I feel thrown to the lions, rather than sympathy for the FtT.

It's a feeling I often get from FtTs.

It's a protected characteristic. Being female isn't.

It is, under sex so males are also included, but not considered worthy of being a hate crime.

Right so I'm the scenario of attacking a trans-person, it is going to be very difficult to prove that it's not because their trans, right?

Although, having said that, I'm guessing that some kind of verbal assertion would have to be made in order for it to be considered a hate crime. Name calling or something.

And if you happen to call them a man? It's the truth, it's refutable, but it's a hate crime, right? Or has that not yet been tested.

It would be in breach of the Equalities Act, i think. Not sure.

m.bedfordshire-news.co.uk/sentence-overturned-for-bedford-man-who-called-transgender-woman-a-geezer/story-30109059-detail/story.html

Ereshkigal

Yes, I remember that, but it was lack of evidence.

If I recall correctly, the accused man came on here, or someone claiming to be him, and said there was far more to it than was reported.

Yes I vaguely remember that too!

There are women on this board that I want to meet in RL and shake their hands. You write so eloquently and patiently and with such brutal honesty, it's a crime that our politicians aren't hearing you. It's an honour reading your words and learning from you all, even if some of those words are painful and heartbreaking to write. to you all.

#proudtowalkwithyou

I feel like that too Smarties.

I don't know if it's characteristic of every forum, but I, for one, read the words of the women on these boards and also have an overwhelming feeling of #proudtowalkwithyou

Reminds me of the account of fit who said after her rape that she told the rapist 'but i'm trans' as if the rapist should just not rape her because she didn't identify as a woman. While i'm sorry she was raped it also implies that she thinks those of us females who are not trans are asking to be raped. Maybe that's a leap but that's how it feels to me.

Exactly. As if a woman's own agency determines whether she is raped.

And TRAs will have you believe that transmen magically acquire male privilege. It's so tiring. And such an insult.

Yes, I think I feel the same. I've come back to this link many times throughout the night and I feel desperately sad for him but this (see pic) strikes a chord with me in a way that I cannot articulate. It does give an under current of being thrown to the lions, and I've no doubt that he doesn't intend for this, but that's the feeling I get too.