Maria Miller jumps the shark (again)

[PricklyBall]

Telegraph article on proposal to remove question on sex from the next census

Quote
Maria Miller, the Chair of the Women and Equality Select Committee, said: "I think its a sensible recommendation given the increasing numbers of people not wanting to identify in traditional ways. It's a progressive way of handling the problem."
Unquote

How the hell are we supposed to address things like the pay gap between men and women if the ONS aren't able to collect the data? (I admit to a vested interest in this particular one as my pay claim is limping through the courts as we speak.)

Making your identity hang on your sex is what's causing the whole problem here - ABOLISH GENDER - be what you like, but denying that you have a sex helps no-one and just denies the basic reality that some people make sperm and some people have eggs, and that's just how human life works.

This sums it up for me.

What IS it with non binaries?

This BBC video appeared on my feed - these non binaries appear to reject the strict two-gender boxes. I thought I agreed with pretty much all they say, except:

• The men among them demand to use the women's loos
• Pronouns
• They confuse sex and gender AGAAAAAAIN

Germaine Greer said something once about a wonderful future where you couldn't immediately tell if someone was male or female and how thrilling this would be. (I can't find quote but she referred to it when I saw her talk recently). I guess non binaries want something similar, at least for them as individuals?!

Those kids are so stoopid
As if we can't see immediately whether they are male or female!

The men among them demand to use the women's loos

Of course they do.

Yes it's quite striking. From the men, on which toilet do they use:
"whichever one I please"
"I don't like to use the male toilets at all, because I will be looked at and people.will think I am a pervert" this from a strapping lad who presumably cares not what the women think
"I was literally dragged out of the club and I was asked 'do I carry a card to.identify that I am trans and I should be using that toilet'"

Whereas the women talk about being mistaken for man in the women's toilets, that they are scared to use the men's toilets, that they (as a male-presenting woman) will use the men's only as long as they feel it is safe.

It's fascinating. I totally understand why they don't want to identify as sex or the other. Although, I should imagine, not everyone's motives are pure. Or indeed feminist.

I'd also bet my right arm that quite a lot of it is about sex and one's dating pool. Particularly with regards to the men. I'd also be interested to see a graph of the sexual orientation of non-binary people. I can't help thinking that the sexual orientation would be homosexual. But that could just be because I get mixed messages.

What I find utterly confounding is that here I am, a feminist, fully on board with dismantling gender. Wanting to see a world where people are not treated differently because of their sex. And yet, at exactly same time, if I am confronted by someone whose sex I can't determine, it worries me.

I've had to do some self analysis as to why that is. And I've come to the very lowering conclusion that it's because I don't know how to treat them. Argh.

It's never happened in real life. I'm assuming, that in real life, I would get a clue as to their sex pretty swiftly.

I wonder if it reflects the fact that women are socialised to have a rational wariness around men, and when someone's presentation is ambiguous, one's intuition doesn't know what to do.

And yes, I agree that bathrooms, etc, should still remain sex segregated. For all the usual reasons.

Agghh, those kids, I just want to send them to their room

I wonder if it reflects the fact that women are socialised to have a rational wariness around men, and when someone's presentation is ambiguous, one's intuition doesn't know what to do.

I think it has more to do with size and attitude, I wouldn't be wary of a male that was smaller, weaker and meeker than me however they present but would be of a larger, stronger more aggressive female however they present.

Tbh my main worry if I meet someone androgynous and can't tell, the 'worry' is mostly that I might put my foot in it by getting their sex wrong. Especially with kids, most of whom whatever they are dressed in or doing are not in the least confused about their sex IME - I'd be appalled if I accidentally called a 'tomboy' a boy, or a longhaired boy a girl, reinforcing stereotypes.

.@jessphillips asks when #genderrecognitionact consultation will be launched. @NickGibbUK says soon. #equalityministers #GRA

twitter.com/Commonswomequ/status/918052441240883201

Do we know who will be consulted and how?

'In which case, get out from under the trans umbrella and get into feminism. '

Exactly!!!

Gender neutral passports. Its hard not to become a spluttering mess when you hear of stuff like this. Hard not to resort to wailing 'WHEN WILL THE MADNESS END??!!!' while tearing your hair out.

I consider myself 'non binary', not that I spend much time thinking about that term. I'm a woman who wears only flat shoes, has very short hair, drinks pints instead of spritzers and has many geeky tendencies. So I don't tick many of the boxes on the 'female stereotypes' checklist but guess what? I'm still a woman! Wouldn't most men and women come out as 'non binary' if you compared them to a checklist of all the stereotypes associated with their sex?!

Do we know who will be consulted and how?

".@AnneMilton would like us to let people know that anyone can response to the #gra consultation. @WomenEqualities will send details of how"

Send to whom, though? People who are engaged, one way or another on twitter and other social media?

Good question Errol.

So I'm sure most of you here aren't a fan of this morning (I confess ok. I like a bit of crap daytime tv sometimes)

They interviewed Tabitha/Tate of piers Morgan interview fame. Interview was a shit show quite frankly.

But if you go on this morning Facebook & search for this story there are comments galore. Some of them not very PC, a lot confuse gender & sex. But the vast majority do not accept that one can be a man or woman one day to the next - or on any time scale really.

Anyway seemed a bit encouraging joe public is not buying it.

Have a look and see what you think if inclined. Be interesting to see what those of you more clued up think...

• the story being gender neutral passports

But the vast majority do not accept that one can be a man or woman one day to the next - or on any time scale really.

If we accept the logic, there's nothing to stop a person being both simultaneously. There's nothing to stop another person switching their gender (in effect this would mean sex) on a daily basis, or even hourly.

Going upthread a bit Anne Milton is a firm believer in "not being on the wrong side of history".

Seems that Stonewall are at Houses of Parliament today to discuss non-binary inclusion in amendments to GRA.
twitter.com/theFoxFisher/status/918062993971310592

Oh god fox and owl make me cringe so hard

How does it help anyone practically to have a piece of paper to say they are officially non-binary? I don't understand.

I can understand it is important to protect people from discrimination but how will a piece of paper do that? And in what circumstances would you use it?

I watched fox and owl's YouTube videos one afternoon last week, in order to expose self to diverse range of views. Fox starts as uncertain lesbian and transitions to transman, and also talks about childhood sexual abuse.

I liked fox, and I felt sad for the girl she was.

Owl (mtf, now non binary) joins later, and is very much the driver behind their attempt to deplatform Germaine Greer in Brighton. Lots of "TERF!", and I thought real fury at the evil feminist.

'non-gendered people are often treated as though we have no rights'.

How I wish for the cushioned, privileged life of someone who was able to say that sentence with a straight face.

I knew fox at university when she was a lesbian called Rachel. She was very gentle and softly spoken iirc and definitely a feminist. Strange to see her transform into this rugged featured, solid person but you can still hear her in her voice. She's made a career out of being trans.