Tragic story which illustrates seriousness of body dysmorphia with relevance to other dysmorphic disorders

[Ereshkigal]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4951968/Artist-40-thought-ugly-killed-herself.html

Apologies for DM link. This is so sad. But I feel it illustrates just how all consuming the feelings of body dysmorphia can be and how warped a view sufferers can have of themselves. She thought she was ugly and was terrified of getting old and fat. From the pictures you can see that she was a very attractive woman who looks a good 5-10 years younger than her real age, not that that counts for anything, but just highlights her distorted view of herself. She was clearly suffering from a serious mental illness. It seems to me that there are some major similarities with gender dysphoria here. Just my thoughts.

If their family/friends discourage the surgery, as this woman's husband did, they probably see that as controlling, even abusive behaviour, that challenges their rights over their own body.

Yes. And it must have been very hard for other people to see how she saw herself and grasp what it meant for her.

There are two major parts to the pathology:

1. vanity - that your own body and its arrangements and so on are of primary importance and that feeling good or bad about that is of interest or value. That appearance is a meaningful measure of value and means something important about your self.

1. perception - actually being able to perceive the body as it is in reality - how big is your arm, how tall are you, can you

You have to think about the two parts separately. It's not fashionable to talk about vanity and how it can be resisted as part of an ethical framework or what the psychological benefits of that might be. I don't know how to do it without either sounding like some kind of 18th Puritan, to be sure! So we often talk about the perception and glide over the vanity aspect, which is probably actually the primary issue. It's common for people to have seriously misguided beliefs about themselves - it's normal actually. I harbour many happy delusions about my proficiency with PHP or that I could deffo do a cartwheel, I just haven't wanted to for 20 years. The problem is when those beliefs are negative and driving action - so it's the vanity that is the killer here.

It must have been. In that type of situation I can see how it would even be tempting to go along with it, because you love the person, and want them to be happy. After all, people have cosmetic surgery all the time, don't they? But that sort of all-consuming belief, which takes over the person's life until it almost becomes their entire identity, is on a different scale entirely. Certainly in the case of the woman my dsis met on the psychiatric ward, all the surgery she'd already undergone hadn't helped her, because the problem was her MH, not her body.

I know that dysmorphia has always existed, but I think we currently live in a society which can almost generate dysmorphia in vulnerable people.

Zoll, that's interesting. Yes, there must be an element of attaching great importance to how others perceive your body, as well as how you perceive it yourself. It must be a two-way process.

Heartbreaking.
Genuine Dysmorphia is becoming far more common these days. I see it on a daily basis, much of my time is spent counselling clients and trying to encourage them to see what others do, but some views are so entrenched, even professional help will not make a difference.
Instagram and Snapchat have contributed vastly imo.

Feral, I imagine that Instagram/Snapchat culture really must intensify that feeling of being scrutinised, especially if a person already has a tendency to obsess over their appearance. Do you know what happens to those whose views are too far entrenched for you to be able to help them?

What's interests me is how the form of delusion changes over time and between cultures. One that's almost gone now is the glass delusion, but that was a huge problem in its day. Charles VI of France had it. Koro is almost totally unknown in the UK, but it sweeps through China quite regularly.

That is absolutely fascinating. I'd heard of the glass delusion before, but had never heard of koro. I wonder what the mechanism must be for a body delusion to afflict a population in a contagion such as that.

The mirror neuron hypothesis may have legs. I don't know - I'd like to read more about it. If it's true we should expect more and more outbreaks of mass hysteria the more connected we are and the more social media we consume, I guess.

The 'mirror neuron' theory is also really interesting. I can also see how, as we're now more connected than ever, more and more susceptible people are likely to witness the hysterical responses of others, so we might expect outbreaks of mass hysteria/delusion to start happening more often.

I know it's over-simplifying, but: since mirroring is such a vital social behaviour, I wonder whether the people/groups that are most susceptible to outbreaks of delusion might be the same people/groups for whom social interaction and 'fitting in' is most important?

Wow I hadn't heard of Koro either. Thanks for that.

more and more susceptible people are likely to witness the hysterical responses of others, so we might expect outbreaks of mass hysteria/delusion to start happening more often.

YY.

The OP and a lot of the comments here remind me of how hard it was to deal with my mother when she was suffering from a psychosis and delusional beliefs. Her ideas really were impenetrable to reason and if you questioned the beliefs she became angry and just thought up more reasons why you were wrong. My mother lost her business, built up over 20 years and all her money as well as friends and family while she chased her ideas and she wouldn't go get help. It was pretty awful. I really do think trans activists and hand maidens display similar behaviour

Yes, it must be terrible for family members and friends as well as the person who is ill.

That sounds massively hard to deal with, wrapped - you must have felt so helpless to see her undo so many good things whilst rejecting the help of people who loved her, in pursuit of fixed ideas. I hope that things are better for you now

I'd heard of the class delusion, but not Koro. Fascinating and horrifying in equal measure.

I'm absolutely convinced that the selfie and Instagram generation is becoming far more susceptible to this type of contagion. It's almost as though if you don't Snapchat your every waking moment, you cease to exist.

The trans ideology would have everyone believe that the reason there are so many people coming out as trans is because tolerance is more widespread. Whilst at the same time asserting that the reason why trans people are unstable is because of the lack of tolerance.

They never listen to whether or not it is social contagion.

I struggle to get my head around how this will pan out. You can't stop the social contagion. Whether you can divert it somehow from its path of negativity, I don't know.

One would hope, or assume that there are enough people who are unaffected to provide a counterbalance, identify a problem, and take action.

But as it's such a new phenomenon, people are taking it seriously, listening to the people who are suffering from it, taking it at face value, and changing laws to accommodate it.

I do think the high efficiency of consensus group formation online - what is being called the bubble in the media - is amplifying these effects.

In f2f, peer group socialisation and group norming make me somewhat skeptical of the idea of support groups based around shared mental health and behavioural problems. What might make sense for externally imposed shared circumstances (breast cancer perhaps) seems unwise for issues around damaging thought patterns, beliefs, and behaviours (like addictions for example).

Zoll, I'm far from well informed on these things, but that would sound sensible to me as well. Certainly the group bonding on Tumblr over shared MH issues seems to amplify their effects, in my experience with family members. I imagine that also happens in formally-organised groups, even though the latter might have at least some degree of 'external' factors to keep them a bit more grounded.

I've considered before, although not in this context, that social media does 'normalise' what would otherwise be very rare behaviour, as people dotted all over the world find one another online. That can be a good thing, of course - people feel less alone. But there can also be a dynamic where it stops people from moving away from unsafe behaviour/beliefs.

God, my brain today. I need more sleep. I meant to say group POLARISATION not socialisation. But yes, you get the point anyway.

Oh this isn't my area either tbh. But we all have eyes and ears and something in between in them. :P There's some interesting research on persuasive design happening now. There are a lot of big questions to ask about this new social environment we've built and what it is (and isn't) doing to our development.

Thanks to you all for your concern. It was very hard but she's recovered really well after being sectioned, and the a brief lapse when she decided she didn't need her medication anymore....

However she has a lovely life, useful work to do and friends etc. So it's a happy ending. You might not be surprised to know that more than a handful of people wanted to agree with her, while she was ill, that there was a worldwide conspiracy against her, that people were following her and listening to her conversations etc. They were angry with me for suggesting she was ill. I think this experience stopped me from disappearing down the lib fem plug hole.

wrapped, I can very well imagine that it discouraged you from just blindly accepting things - you've really been at the sharp end. It's amazing what people can be prepared to go along with. I'm very glad that things have improved for her, and for you.

Some fascinating ideas on this thread from a sociocultural perspective. The persuasive design stuff looks really interesting, thanks! It's tangentially relevant to my own work.

Re social contagion, someone posted this on another forum:

www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00332925.2017.1350804?needAccess=true

That's a very informative and concerning piece of work.

Another thing about a mass body delusion that has spread via the Internet/social media, which would distinguish it from previous outbreaks, would be that historically the outbreaks would have been mostly geographically based, or would at least spread outwards in the same pattern as 'traditional' news media. But if it spreads on the Internet, you'd get pockets of it simultaneously all over the world, especially in communities with a high level of social media use.

But if it spreads on the Internet, you'd get pockets of it simultaneously all over the world, especially in communities with a high level of social media use.

Yes. The internet has revolutionised the way people communicate and interact with the world. And has lots of unintended consequences.