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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Ian Duncan-smith says unmarried men are a problem for society

603 replies

QuentinSummers · 04/10/2017 08:01

m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_59d3b8f9e4b04b9f92054af5
Seems to me there are undertones that women should be controlling men better.

Also quite a lot of blatant sexism such as men who aren't married develop "low value for women" which suggests to me that the value women hold is intrinsicly linked to their chastity/marriageability to ID'S

Interested to hear what others think because I'm being a bit inarticulate on this.

OP posts:
TheSparrowhawk · 09/10/2017 14:23

The culmination of that effect, of course Handbag, is men who say they're totally happy for women to have power, but only if women never do any nasty thing ever. If women aren't 100% perfect at all times well, then, they don't deserve power, the nasty bitches! Deep down I think many men are absolutely shitless that if women get enough power they're going to treat men the way men treat women and they know that's not going to be good.

TheSparrowhawk · 09/10/2017 14:26

It also strikes me as hilarious the way, when women suffer a problem, men totally ignore it and say it's a 'women's issue' and make excuse after excuse about why they can't do anything about it. But as soon as men suffer the exact same issue, suddenly it's the end of the world and women absolutely must fix it or they're responsible for all the world's wrongs. Take for example the fact that more men are now in lower paid jobs. Men didn't really give a flying fuck when women couldn't have any jobs at all, did they? They couldn't give a shiny shit. In fact they did everything humanly possible to prevent women from ever having any jobs and then to prevent them from getting paid decently when they did. But now that men are finding themselves in a similar position, women are supposed to weep? Eh, yeah. I'll do that, just hold your breath.

Gentlemanjohn · 09/10/2017 14:26

I don't want a woman to sort anything out for me, I want the government to do that. I want a rent I can afford to pay; I want to have a job that pays me more than thirty pounds a week to eat on; I want affordable education.

I don't think it's women's job to do this - though saying that I'd be completely happy for an all female government. Women tend to get on and do stuff unlike us male bullshitters :)

I am literally happy for women to have all the power in the world if they use it properly and make things work properly and create a fair, just society. But they won't in a capitalist system - they'll just be more shitty, greedy self servers like the men, because that is the only kind of power capitalism allows.

Gentlemanjohn · 09/10/2017 14:28

Men didn't really give a flying fuck when women couldn't have any jobs at all, did they?

That's a fair point. Be better than them.

TheSparrowhawk · 09/10/2017 14:28

What puts the tin hat on it is that men deliberately prevented women from having jobs and from getting paid equally. They went out of their way to make it happen. And now that men are losing out on the job front (though not nearly as much as women, still) and women are in no way responsible for that, given that most companies and governments are still run by men, women are supposed to do something about it. Why? Why should we? Why do we have to solve everything as well as keeping the human race going and washing everyone's socks. DO IT YOURSELF YOU LAZY MANBABIES.

HandbagKrabby · 09/10/2017 14:28

True. If you're a woman in power and are not single handedly dismantling the capitalist state and creating a new system where mediocre men can rise to the top effortlessly, you might as well get back in that kitchen. What are you even for, as a powerful woman, if you're not using your power to benefit men?

TheSparrowhawk · 09/10/2017 14:30

'That's a fair point. Be better than them.'

Oh god, I'd laugh if it wasn't so fucking pathetic.

Gentlemanjohn · 09/10/2017 14:31

'DO IT YOURSELF YOU LAZY MANBABIES.'

'Get on your bike'

Norman Tebbit.

Gentlemanjohn · 09/10/2017 14:33

What is it you think poor men should do themselves? Get a job? Some of them can't. Of course that's not women;s fault in any sense - but calling anyone who complains about their economic situation a 'man-baby' is just so Thatcherite and nasty it's untrue.

TheSparrowhawk · 09/10/2017 14:33

You do realise he didn't actually say that john?

And no I'm not going to have any sympathy for the group of people who rape 85,000 women a year. Or, to be more accurate, I'm going to have exactly the same amount of sympathy for them as they have for me and as they had for the women who couldn't vote or have a job.

Men don't really like the taste of their own medicine do they?

TheSparrowhawk · 09/10/2017 14:34

Raping people is pretty horrible too John but men do that pretty much all the time, every day, in their millions. So I'm ok with not being perfect, thanks.

treaclesoda · 09/10/2017 14:34

Why is the onus on women to be 'better people' than men?

HandbagKrabby · 09/10/2017 14:35

Exactly. There's discrimination and a wage gap right now in 2017 and yet women should be putting men's interests first and foremost. When has a man in power used that power to put women first? Are there any women in power deliberately discriminating against men?

TheSparrowhawk · 09/10/2017 14:37

Men still run almost everything john. If you're wanting any people to be better, you might be well advised to start with them.

TheSparrowhawk · 09/10/2017 14:39

Women who complained about their economic situation were just ignored john. So what women did was they got together and fought for every single human right they have now. So if men aren't happy about their economic status, they could do what women did and fight against it instead of complaining. Because if all they do is complain then yes, they are manbabies. Women got what they needed in spite of resistance every centimetre of the way. Men never helped on any occasion, ever, not once. In fact they made it as difficult as they possibly could. Women aren't babies, they just had to go ahead and get it themselves. Men should get off their whiny arses and do the same.

As for being better than men? I do that before breakfast thanks.

treaclesoda · 09/10/2017 14:41

TheSparrowhawk that's exactly what I was thinking. If men had treated women with decency from the dawn of time there would never have been any need for feminism because equality would have been the norm. Therefore no one would be needing to criticise feminism. Because it wouldn't exist.

HandbagKrabby · 09/10/2017 14:41

It says a lot about you if you require half the population to be deliberately kept back and more than full employment for the unskilled and uneducated in the other half in order to be able to feed yourself. Women have never had those opportunities and yet here we are, getting on and doing ok.

Men need to step up, quit whining about being hard done to and sort themselves out. If you're not happy with the opportunities offered become involved in politics and try and do something about it - most politicians are men so it's not like it's full of nasty feminists holding you back.

Gentlemanjohn · 09/10/2017 14:48

Rape is heinous. I'd have them all shot. But to think this means feminism should be a case of 'now men can enjoy a bit of their own medicine'? You sure about that?

And neither am I sure of this idea that poor men can just sort their own shit out. Some poor people lack the ability to help themselves - they have mental health problems, disabilities, or just aren't as naturally intelligent or educated as you. Or they're traumatised veterans or something. Their is a million and one reasons why someone might be incapable of helping themselves.

Does this mean they deserve their plight? Not really does it?

Gentlemanjohn · 09/10/2017 14:49

It says a lot about you if you require half the population to be deliberately kept back and more than full employment for the unskilled and uneducated in the other half in order to be able to feed yourself. Women have never had those opportunities and yet here we are, getting on and doing ok.

I'm sorry I require what??

HandbagKrabby · 09/10/2017 14:53

Well you do don't you? You're equating women getting on with men like yourself being held down and to you that's bad and women should feel bad and do something about it. You see women taking opportunities from men and in your mind this is not fair.

There are more poor women than men in the world, from your position of privilege what are you doing to help them?

TheSparrowhawk · 09/10/2017 14:58

No. And women never deserved their plight either. And yet men didn't give a fuck.

Gentlemanjohn · 09/10/2017 14:59

No, my point is that no one should be in competition with anything for anyone. I don't want to have one over on women, or any class of people.

We all equally deserve a good standard of living. No one deserves to be in poverty or locked out of the job market. No one.

TheSparrowhawk · 09/10/2017 15:02

It's funny how men are so worried about people being locked out of the job market only now, when it affects them isn't it? They didn't seem to be too concerned when every single woman was locked out. How odd.

Gentlemanjohn · 09/10/2017 15:02

No. And women never deserved their plight either. And yet men didn't give a fuck.

Yeah, but what sort of logic is that? It's like saying that because one group of people didn't care about another then the reverse is OK. Think about what you're saying.

Honestly, if you see a guy sleeping in a doorway and someone says 'poor chap' would you honestly respond with 'I don't give a fuck'?

Nice.

TheSparrowhawk · 09/10/2017 15:05

Again, I love how women aren't allowed to be as callous as men were, deliberately and with malice, for centuries. Men did everything they could to prevent women from having economic security and independence, up to and including imprisoning them. So if I did see a homeless man and said 'I don't give a fuck' I'd still be a long long long way from what men did. Men have absolutely no right to lecture women on this. No right.