Is it possible to be a feminist but...

[emmber]

Believe that transgender is an actual thing and that it's not a bad thing?

Not wanting to start a debate over this (although it could), I'm asking a genuine question.

I cringe when anyone says "I'm a feminist"
If a man said "I'm a masculinist" he he derided as a chauvinist.
Everyone should be equal, and by declaring yourself as a "feminist" you're a hypocrite

Thank you for that insightful (and irrelevant) input.

Sure. Take a look at Everyday Feminism.

I just want to be certain that this comment is actually a joke.

overnightangel

Feminism is not, and never was about equality.

If it was, feminists would be advocating for 117 million boy babies to be aborted before they are born. We would encourage women to kill two men a week in domestic violence incidents.

We would be happy with 85,000 men a year being raped by women.

Or cutting off parts of their penis so they cannot enjoy sex as an adult. And killing young men if they marry outside their religion.

We would be unbothered about 200 million boys and men who have gone missing across the globe.

That's equality.

On the other hand, stopping those things is called feminism.

When people say feminists should seek equality, what they are really saying is shut up about the inequality.

"I'm a radical feminist and studied gender studies and I support trans people and accept transwomen as women (which is different from biologically female)."

What do you call an adult human female if not woman? What is your definition of women?

Why do, admittedly only some, MTT attempt to mimic the female body if women is different to female?

And in terms of allowing men into female spaces. When women commit 50% of sexual assault, instead of the 2% that they do, then we can talk. Because, you know, then it will be 'equality'.

So what do you call a group of adult human females?

Sex and gender are different things. Sex is biological and can't be changed. Gender is a social construct.

Agreed

Male/female = sex.
Man/woman = gender.

No.

Male/female = sex
Man/woman = adult human male/female
Masculine/feminine = gender

When I studied women's studies - that is before the boys stole it from us, re-badged it, appropriated it and mansplained it back to us in the form of gender studies

male/female = sex
masculine/feminine = gender.

Further gender was understood as an oppressive (mainly to women) social construct that was fundamental to patriarchy.

I don't understand the sudden misunderstanding of the word woman. A woman means an adult human female. It's not an adult human male.

It's the age specific word for a female. Like girl is an age specific word for a female.

You can't be a woman unless you are female (and have been a girl). Unless you want to change the dictionary definition.

Masculine and feminine are genders, or rather gender characteristics. There is no actual such thing as the word gender. Only gender identity or gender expression. Because it relies upon masculine and feminine as characteristics to explain it

I think, that in interests of equality, we should be discussing what it is to be a man and what is masculinity. It seems to me that this particular half of biological sex and gender binary is lacking somewhat in discourse.

If a penis is female then doesn't that erase masculinity? Perhaps all babies should be assigned female at birth - which seems to be the logical outcome of all this equality of gender nonsense.

Gender being a social construct derived from the patriarchy, means that gender by it's very meaning doesn't have equality. The mere use of the word male equates to dominance and the mere use of the word female equates to subservience.

Oh and masculine and feminine are derived also from language construct. I'm forever mixing gender in French. Le fenetre anyone? Or am I transphobic and a terf?

Now that would be a nice dystopian novel for the men to lather over.

A world in which all humans are assigned female at birth.

Datun, it's pointless arguing with people like you

"When people say feminists should seek equality, what they are really saying is shut up about the inequality."

This is bullshit

@overnightangel what would probably help you discuss things is to attempt to respond to the points made to you. Datun made a point about the difference between equality and feminism - do you disagree with what she wrote, or have any other thoughts about it?

Today 18:12 overnightangel

Datun, it's pointless arguing with people like you

Oh, I don't know. You could, you know, copy and paste what I say, then refute it using stuff like logic or stats. Perhaps a few bullet points relating to what I say and upholding your argument in a rational way?

Or you could say:

This is bullshit

Which, ironically, does rather underpin that your argument is pointless.

Overnight, may I suggest a wide range of entertaining activities for you? You could go onto the gardening board, and tell the posters there it's a waste of time and they should all put down astroturf. Or style and beauty maybe and tell posters that we should all wear Mao suits. Or maybe creative writing and tell everyone that you prefer factual books.

I mean, I could understand your presence if the thread title was "what's the point of feminism?". But it isn't. Is it? It's a discussion about a specific topic which you've decided to come and share your pearls of wisdom on.

(Otherwise known as "what is it about feminism in particular that brings out the goady fuckers?")

Overnight

It's not that boring at the Labour Party Conference, is it?

sarcasm

To be fair, I don't think people like overnightangel give this issue very much thought.

They have a sort of opinion, fuelled by life experience, and can't step outside the box.

Feminism is one of those things.

It's precisely because we live in a chauvinistic society that makes women 'lesser than' that people grow up thinking it, but not consciously.

Feminists have coined the term internalised misogyny.

Because that's what it is.

It's only when your belief, and it is a belief, is ripped out and held up to question, that you suddenly realise you can't uphold it with any kind of rational argument.

It must be infuriating. And, I would hope, a little worrying.

The same people who moan about their husbands not pulling their weight, complain about the male boss taking credit, wouldn't dream of putting a pink hairband on a girl, or telling their daughter they can't be a scientist, or complain about sexual harassment and man spreading, THEN don't make the connection to FGM, honour killings, period property, rape, male violence and aborting children on the basis of the fact that they have XX chromosomes.

And what's really galling is they would not be able to even have an opinion about any of it, if it hadn't been for feminists.

For some people, it's when you get to the 'it's the fault of the menz', rather than being just some random stuff that accidentally happened, which benefits no one, so no ones fault.............
Which, I guess, was probably me at about 17, rather than the 18-year old me who discovered 'Spare Rib'...............Once that light has been switched on

Yes to internalised misogyny being a thing, I see it in almost a daily basis unfortunately. Most women aren't even aware they have it.

Oh, it's definitely a thing. But it's quite hard to convince people who have it, that they do in fact, have it.